Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Schools in England Introduce a New Subject: Mindfulness

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 140 posts

Re: Schools in England Introduce a New Subject: Mindfulness

#61

Post by grumdan »

FrankyHollywood wrote: post #27

I'm always puzzled with the fact that people search for surrogate solutions instead of pursuing the real issue. If you don't feel well there is so much you can do. Make serious effort in making friends, join a sports club or something else you like, solve long running conflicts with other people, don't over- or under achieve on a level which doesn't fit you (school/work), be proud with the things you accomplish inste…

I would see it the other way around: To me the real issue is that our minds have a tendency to create a lot of unnecessary stress for ourselves and make us focus on goals that are unlikely to produce any lasting happiness, like constantly striving for new achievements.

Meditation, at least some forms of it, are attacking this particular problem at the source and try to help people let go of these mental habits. I get the converse feeling that hobbies / meeting up with friends / putting a lot of effort into work are engaging, but they also feel like pleasant distractions instead of addressing what I see as the real underlying issue. This is highly subjective and depends on on what ones wants to do with one's life, but meditation certainly isn't a surrogate solution to me.

Re: Schools in England Introduce a New Subject: Mindfulness

#62

Post by mapcars »

fiala__ wrote: post #29
ionised wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are asserting that depression is a learned behaviour?

They're probably also the kind of person who tells depressed people to "cheer up, life's not all that bad after all!"

Depending on a situation I can do that as well. I do not exclude any possibility, what will work - I will do. Whatever "kinds" of people you invented - this is only your own problem.

Re: Schools in England Introduce a New Subject: Mindfulness

#63

Post by DanBC »

FrankyHollywood wrote: post #27

I'm always puzzled with the fact that people search for surrogate solutions instead of pursuing the real issue. If you don't feel well there is so much you can do. Make serious effort in making friends, join a sports club or something else you like, solve long running conflicts with other people, don't over- or under achieve on a level which doesn't fit you (school/work), be proud with the things you accomplish inste…

Mental ill health is a leading cause of death worldwide. It leads to more years lost to disabiity than anything else. It's a significant cause of absence from work.

If the cure was so fucking simple don't you think people would have tried it?

The worst thing about HN is people who do not know what they're talking about chipping in with their facile half-witted suggestions for what they reckon.

Re: Schools in England Introduce a New Subject: Mindfulness

#64

Post by collyw »

spuz wrote: post #35
fooblat wrote: post #31

I really struggle with the term "mindfulness" as it seems it can mean anything and everything, depending on who you ask. We had some Mindfulness workshops at a previous employer and it was so full of woo and magical thinking that it really turned me off and felt like a huge waste of time. My current company also recently introduced a Mindfulness workshop only this time it was really a basic meditation workshop which…

Sounds like you had a bad workshop the first time round. Mindfulness should be rational, scientific and entirely free of woo or magical thinking.

These days the word is used so frequently that it seems to include everything and is almost meaningless.

Re: Schools in England Introduce a New Subject: Mindfulness

#65

Post by setquk »

I've had a lot of experience with schools and mental health issues. I have a daughter under an EHCP due to a genetic problem that causes learning difficulties and the competence is simply not there to handle even basic care in this aspect. This isn't budgetary or process related, but individual human competence is beyond terrible. This spans three "Ofsted outstanding" rated schools and two local authorities. It has got to the point that there are actually specialist charities set up to whack the schools back into place legally when they screw up over and over again.

And we're trusting them with handling general mental health? What could possibly go wrong?

Mindfulness is such a vague concept that it detatches the responsibility from mental health as well.

Re: Schools in England Introduce a New Subject: Mindfulness

#66

Post by DanBC »

mapcars wrote: post #2

>“Children will start to be introduced gradually to issues around mental health, well-being and happiness right from the start of primary school,” he added. Why wouldn't adults just solve their mental problems instead of introducing them to children? Children have no problems with happiness or well-being. It's us who should learn from them. big facepalm

> Children have no problems with happiness or well-being

How about children who are repeatedly raped by their parent? Are they happy?

How about children who's parent has died? Are they happy?

What about the children who are grappling with gender indentity or sexuality (and maybe with parents who are not supportive)? Are they happy?

What about children living with disability and who are being bullied because of it? Are they happy?

Re: Schools in England Introduce a New Subject: Mindfulness

#67

Post by DanBC »

zimpenfish wrote: post #34
mapcars wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Besides, depression and anxiety is surprisingly common among children. Whom do you think they learned this from? Trees or cats?

> Whom do you think they learned this from? I suspect that in a non-ignorable number of cases, "no one", because it's entirely possible their brain chemistry is just screwy.

No-one credible uses brain chemistry as an explanation for depression (unless you're talking about bi-polar). The emphasis is on the psycho-social bit of bio-psycho-social.

Re: Schools in England Introduce a New Subject: Mindfulness

#68

Post by carlsborg »

bencollier49 wrote: post #33

My five year-old son now talks about his mind in the third person as a result of this. I'm having to retrain him with responsibility for his own actions. Lovely idea and all but having untrained people teaching psychological practices to reception-grade children seems rather foolhardy to me.

Why is that a bad thing? If they can evaluate their thought process at such a young age, I would think that's a win.

Re: Schools in England Introduce a New Subject: Mindfulness

#69

Post by icebraining »

mapcars wrote: post #60
icebraining wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even assuming depression must be "learned", what does it matter? School can't make sure they're never around depressed people. But it can help them protect themselves from it.

You will meet all kinds of people that's true, but it worth decreasing the amount.

How do you suggest the schools help with that?

Re: Schools in England Introduce a New Subject: Mindfulness

#70

Post by austincheney »

icebraining wrote: post #10
austincheney wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why wouldn't adults just solve their mental problems instead of introducing them to children? Because people live in an artificial world. In the absence of real problems everything is emotionally traumatic, first world problems. As I sit next to a war on a military deployment I await people to prove me right with the sadness of their downvotes.

My teenage brother just lost his father to cancer. But that's surely just a first-world problem.

That is a tragic event. Healthy people bounce back from trauma after a healing period. Healthy people aren't the ones in need of institutional self-awareness.

Conversely, do you have chronic income insecurity? Are you dodging bullets and bombs daily as some people do? Were you ever a victim of child slavery in a third-world nation? I suspect if you have internet access you probably have reliable shelter and don't stress over food insecurity. Those are real problems, and yet the people who live through those stressors typically aren't the ones needing mindfulness. The difference is a matter of perspective from perseverance. The lack of perseverance in normal childhood development is certainly a first-world problem.

Post reply on HN