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Big Cities No Longer Deliver for Low-Skill Workers

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Re: Big Cities No Longer Deliver for Low-Skill Workers

#61

Post by landryraccoon »

nradov wrote: post #30
netcan wrote: post #10

" middle-class life to those without a college degree " Anytime you start delving into what has changed for a subset of people, over decades, the most important piece of the puzzle is decided ding who qualifies for the subset. I mean concepts like "middle class" or "without a college degree." A lot more people get degrees, in 2018. Does the graduates/nongraduates segment still represent a comparable group of people?…

College doesn't necessarily make people more productive. Rather it acts as a filter to knock unproductive people out of the hiring pool. And in economics terminology, completing a degree acts as a signal for candidates to demonstrate intelligence and persistence to employers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signalling_(economics)

I don’t buy this. Are saying if you get college a degree in Chemical Engineering you wouldn’t be far more productive as a Chemical Engineer than if you only went to high school? Or in say, physics or chemistry or botany?

Re: Big Cities No Longer Deliver for Low-Skill Workers

#62

Post by pytester »

abakker wrote: post #20
collyw wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not for the unskilled workers out of a job.

Or, critically as another comment a few days ago put it, "automation crowds out those who are just starting their careers, more than those who have already started". Automation can easily prevent you from entering the workplace and moving from low-skill to high skill through experience.

The outsourcing boom did this, not automation.

Dogsbody type work is routinely offshored rather than being given to local juniors.

Every company I've worked at in the last 3 years bar one has had a component of their workforce doing this kind of work - in the philippines or india.

Re: Big Cities No Longer Deliver for Low-Skill Workers

#63

Post by francisofascii »

Bucephalus355 wrote: post #11

And yet we see this huge push in the intelligentsia for how cities “increase creativity” and promote value “x y and z” and how “we should be like China and build planned mega cities”. Cities that are very walkable and have a thriving downtown / mixed business areas can be a ton of fun and very good, but it’s very hard to ever make that affordable, and basically impossible to do in America which has large space demand…

Isn't a more compact/walkable town/city more affordable from a construction/materials standpoint? I think these walkable places are not affordable because there are so few of them, so are in high demand.

Re: Big Cities No Longer Deliver for Low-Skill Workers

#64

Post by analog31 »

chasd00 wrote: post #38
YawningAngel wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who on earth employs a "solutions architect" whose only qualification is some random certificate that tests AWS trivia?

lots of people. In the Salesforce consulting world the Certified Technical Architect (CTA) cert means you walk in the door at any of the big consulting firms at managing director or equivalent rank and that comes out to around $200k/year. The cert isn't that easy to get, it requires a dozen or so prerequisite certs and then an exam plus a board review but you could probably do it in a year and a half. Also, i think o…

Granted, I know little to nothing about the IT industry, but is a "managing director" someone who has a high school diploma plus some technical skills?

Re: Big Cities No Longer Deliver for Low-Skill Workers

#65

Post by wonderwonder »

mattmanser wrote: post #27
swampthinker wrote: post #2

My tinfoil hat theory is that this is being caused by the increasing concentration of wealth. Which is being enabled by increasing levels of automation and efficiency.

I think the more likely truth is it's been enabled by weakening unions, mass immigration and globalisation.

which are for the most part driven by the increase of wealth concentration. I think there are many symptoms but the main issue is not enough money left for those not in the 1%.

Re: Big Cities No Longer Deliver for Low-Skill Workers

#66

Post by dantheman »

moorhosj wrote: post #29
Bucephalus355 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make very good points above. I really enjoyed college, especially my liberal arts classes. That being said, with AWS Certs going for between $75-$300 how long do colleges think they can survive? If you were a 22 yr old who studied from zero-level computing knowledge for 12 months and got the AWS Solutions Architect Pro cert (somewhat possible assuming 2 hours / day) I can already guarantee you’d receive a written…

==I really enjoyed college, especially my liberal arts classes.== I think this highlights the true question. Do colleges exist to promote education and intellectual curiosity or to train workers? According to PEW, Americans believe colleges are for work training: "Americans are split on the main purpose of college, with 47% saying it is to teach work-related skills and 39% saying it is to help a student grow personal…

It'd be hard to justify the costs - both actual college costs and opportunity costs if it was purely for intellectual curiosity.

Re: Big Cities No Longer Deliver for Low-Skill Workers

#67

Post by SolaceQuantum »

grawprog wrote: post #48
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the short term yes, but in the long term it will benefit them too. If there is less work to be done in the world, then everyone will work less on average. I firmly believe that one of two things will eventually happen: • We will find new industries which replace the old jobs. Companies in these industries will by necessity find ways to fill positions, either by paying enough that (even) more people can afford coll…

As someone who's been on employment insurance before. I can't understand the appeal of ubi. Getting a small amount of money to do nothing is excruciating. It's really not a fun way to live.

It's a small amount of money so that you can dedicate more time to your children (instead of picking up another part-time job), more time to your education (instead of picking up employment during your highschool years), more time to your training (so the poor can actually educate themselves with certs instead of working 3 jobs to afford insulin or some other healthcare), more time to volunteer organizations, more time for political engagement, so on and so forth. It's not to do nothing. It's to enable people to do what they want when time is money and both are scarce.

Re: Big Cities No Longer Deliver for Low-Skill Workers

#68

Post by [deleted] »

grawprog wrote: post #48
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the short term yes, but in the long term it will benefit them too. If there is less work to be done in the world, then everyone will work less on average. I firmly believe that one of two things will eventually happen: • We will find new industries which replace the old jobs. Companies in these industries will by necessity find ways to fill positions, either by paying enough that (even) more people can afford coll…

As someone who's been on employment insurance before. I can't understand the appeal of ubi. Getting a small amount of money to do nothing is excruciating. It's really not a fun way to live.

[deleted]

Re: Big Cities No Longer Deliver for Low-Skill Workers

#69

Post by Wowfunhappy »

lmm wrote: post #33
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the short term yes, but in the long term it will benefit them too. If there is less work to be done in the world, then everyone will work less on average. I firmly believe that one of two things will eventually happen: • We will find new industries which replace the old jobs. Companies in these industries will by necessity find ways to fill positions, either by paying enough that (even) more people can afford coll…

Who's gonna make UBI happen? Where's the motivation for offering true UBI rather than precarious subsidies to "jobseekers"?

The huge mass of voters who can't get jobs?

Re: Big Cities No Longer Deliver for Low-Skill Workers

#70

Post by belorn »

cimmanom wrote: post #42
netcan wrote: post #10

" middle-class life to those without a college degree " Anytime you start delving into what has changed for a subset of people, over decades, the most important piece of the puzzle is decided ding who qualifies for the subset. I mean concepts like "middle class" or "without a college degree." A lot more people get degrees, in 2018. Does the graduates/nongraduates segment still represent a comparable group of people?…

Only a couple generations ago, college was not a proxy for "middle class". Lots of blue-collar jobs (especially industrial ones) paid enough for a "middle class" lifestyle and financial security. Small businesses were competitive and many of their owners were not college educated either. College wasn't a necessary qualification for most blue-collar jobs, including some for which it now is (such as police work, in man…

A couple generations ago US had a military draft and wars to send low-skill working class men to. That significant changes the meaning of "start out as a file clerk with a high school degree and work your way up into middle or even upper management".
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