Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

De-Suckafying Apple’s Butterfly Keyboard

sdbr.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 102 posts

Re: De-Suckafying Apple’s Butterfly Keyboard

#61

Post by vinceguidry »

A year ago I excised MacBooks from my main computing life. An old System76 Galago Pro with a stand and a bluetooth keyboard became my couch computer, a Windows 10 with a Ubuntu VM for webdev Lenovo ThinkPad Yoga became my coffee shop / bar computer, and I turned my work MacBook Pro into a glorified desktop by adding an external display, keyboard, and mouse. Eventually I want to replace it with a Mac Mini but can't justify the expenditure this year. There's also an Arch Linux desktop that I'm typing this on now.

The only thing I use one for is at home in bed at 3am where f.lux Darkroom Mode on OSX is still unbeatable at what it does, and there's zero chance of liquid spills.

Apple's legendary quality just isn't there anymore, and the machines are so fragile to liquid damage and the repair experience went from awesome to utter shit over the last 5 or so years. I just can't justify it anymore. My next phone is a Librem 5, my next laptop a Librem 13. I love the OSX ecosystem but not enough to turn all my machines into hackintoshes.

I really didn't think it would only be a few years after Jobs died before Apple started whiffing. Now it's easy to see just how well he was able to keep the jackals away. Now the whole company is solely interested in making stupid amounts of money.

Such a shame.

Re: De-Suckafying Apple’s Butterfly Keyboard

#62

Post by S_A_P »

dkonofalski wrote: post #8

I see a lot of complaining about this keyboard online but I have yet to meet someone in person that thought it was as terrible as claimed. I love the new MacBook keyboards and Touch Bar but it's possible that I'm a complete outlier.

Ive the 2018 i9 MacBook Pro. "upgraded" to this from a 2014 model. Not only is the keyboard not as terrible as claimed its many times worse. I have few words to describe how terrible it is. I use an external keyboard whenever I can. Anyone who uses f9/f10/f11 regularly soon realizes how bad the Touch Bar is for development. When I debug I rest my finger on the f10 key to step through the code. NO CAN DO on a Touch Bar. In fact this is the first Mac I am considering selling, even for a loss. I really hope that someone at apple reads this.

Re: De-Suckafying Apple’s Butterfly Keyboard

#63

Post by gjsman-1000 »

dkonofalski wrote: post #8

I see a lot of complaining about this keyboard online but I have yet to meet someone in person that thought it was as terrible as claimed. I love the new MacBook keyboards and Touch Bar but it's possible that I'm a complete outlier.

I have a MacBook Pro 2017. I have had sticky keys - but thankfully only the right arrow and bottom arrow key.

I'm actually with Apple on this one - I think it needs revision, but I actually have gotten used to the flat typing. It makes the other keyboards I've tried feel really, really mushy. I can actually type over 90WPM on this thing at typeracer.com.

Overall, I wish it was quieter and didn't have sticky keys, but otherwise, the shallowness is no problem for me.

Re: De-Suckafying Apple’s Butterfly Keyboard

#64

Post by bavariancake »

ordinaryradical wrote: post #29
bavariancake wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Join us on the dark side. https://github.com/bavariancake/XPS9570-macOS I still have my 2012 MBPr, but I’m really liking the keyboard on the XPS 15.

Is it futz intensive? How far away from "it just works" are you?

Initially there was a lot of futzing, because the hardware just came out (UHD 630 Intel graphics). Some things like Nvidia graphics and SD card reader won’t work because of missing drivers, and are unlikely to work in the future.

That said, I use this setup every day and mostly forget it’s not a Mac. I was quite frustrated by the new Touch Bar Macs issued by my work (unpleasant keyboard, no real F keys, USB C only, flimsy back case that has dents in it from regular commuting use somehow), so I didn’t see that as a viable upgrade path for me since I like to keep my computers for 5+ years.

That’s probably not very convincing, but for me it was the right choice. For what’s its worth, I intend to support the XPS 9570 as a Hackintosh platform until at least 2023.

Re: De-Suckafying Apple’s Butterfly Keyboard

#65

Post by zootam »

eslaught wrote: post #41
glhaynes wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Apple replaces keyboards, they replace them with the 2018 keyboard (the one with the extra rubber barriers)?

I understand that they replace them with whatever is newest at the time, so since I did my replacement in fall 2018, yes.

no, this is not correct.

2016-2017s get the 2016-2017 keyboard- without the silicone sheet.

Re: De-Suckafying Apple’s Butterfly Keyboard

#66

Post by zootam »

forgetcolor wrote: post #49
klodolph wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a defect. There's a service program for keyboards with problems. I took mine to be serviced and it was returned without repeating keys or stuck keys. https://www.apple.com/support/keyboard-service-program-for-m...

Yes, have tried this. Comes back working and then develops the same problem shortly thereafter. Further, Apple Stores are about a 2.5hr drive for me, so I can't just easily keep popping in for every issue -- especially if I think the fix won't last anyway.

if you eat near the computer or live in a place with lots of dust/debris in the air- and have a 2016-2017 keyboard- it will probably just keep happening.

Re: De-Suckafying Apple’s Butterfly Keyboard

#67

Post by rdoherty »

TomVDB wrote: post #25
dkhenry wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was in the exact same situation late last year, and I went with a X1 Carbon 6th Generation. It has been fantastic. Everything just works, and it has probably the best keyboard I have ever used on a laptop

Just 2 days ago, I spent 2 hours researching alternatives for my mid-2012 MBPr 15 and had settled on an X1 Carbon as well. How's the trackpad? How's sleep mode if you use it with Linux? I'm still on the fence, but I ordered an iFixit battery replacement kit for the MBP. After almost 7 years (!), it still has everything I need except for the fact that it randomly shuts down when the battery is at 60%...

I've had an X1 Carbon for a few months, coming from a 2015 MBP. Track pad is pretty bad compared to a MacBook. Everything else is very good. I got the high res screen too and it is comparable to a retina display IMHO.

I've installed Ubuntu 18 with 0 problems. Sleep works fine, haven't had any issues with wake up. You do need to install some custom software and change a BIOS setting for it to use 'Linux' sleep mode (or something like that). Battery life is 'pretty good', not exceptional like MBPs, but definitely in the 6hr range.

Overall I'd recommend a X1 Carbon, especially since you will spend nearly $1k less on the comparable specs.

Re: De-Suckafying Apple’s Butterfly Keyboard

#68

Post by b3b0p »

geophile wrote: post #2

I've owned MBPs for over ten years. But my mid-2015 15" MBP ("peak MBP") is giving out, and I need a replacement. It won't be another MBP, because of the keyboard regressions -- the butterfly keyboard, and the touchbar. Thinking about a System 76 Galago.

I can't stand the keyboard, but do like the Touch Bar. Out of FUD, I have keyboard cover on my 2017 MacBook Pro.

Similarly thinking, I have been trolling the Thinkpad Subreddit and constantly check the Lenovo Corporate Perks prices with a fully loaded P52 sitting in my cart. Can't pull the trigger. I'm too entrenched and spoiled by the Apple conveniences and ecosystem.

Re: De-Suckafying Apple’s Butterfly Keyboard

#69

Post by nickm12 »

sorahn wrote: post #35
geophile wrote: post #2

I've owned MBPs for over ten years. But my mid-2015 15" MBP ("peak MBP") is giving out, and I need a replacement. It won't be another MBP, because of the keyboard regressions -- the butterfly keyboard, and the touchbar. Thinking about a System 76 Galago.

I was just looking at some of the 2015 refurbs on amazon. Not bad. I have a 2018 at work, and I hate the keyboard. I'm either gonna grab the highest spec 2015 when mine dies, or just use my work laptop until the next generation. I'm not interested in shelling out for a new personal laptop with these keyboards. :(

I just bought two 2015 refurbs on Amazon. They actually came in very good shape and are working well. In addition to the better keyboard and ports, the 2015 MacBook Pro also has a straightforward way to update the storage. I just increased my wife's from 256 GB to 480GB for $160.

Re: De-Suckafying Apple’s Butterfly Keyboard

#70

Post by shimms »

woolvalley wrote: post #28
shimms wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It won't be another MBP, because of the keyboard regressions Have you tried the third generation butterfly on the 2018 MBP and MBA? I hate with a passion the first two attempts at the butterfly keyboard, but the third gen I actually enjoy using.

Although it is nicer, even the 3rd gen keyboards have reports of keys sticking and breaking. I've never had to worry about my laptop keyboard breaking before I got a butterfly keyboard macbook from work.

That’s true - my first gen MacBook a couple of years ago was replaced three times.

My MBA is only a few weeks old, and I’ve noticed the space bar feels different already on the right hand side. Not sure if it’s real or imagined yet, but based on past experience, I’m concerned it may very well be dodgy.

I really do want to think they’ve ironed these issues out, but I admit I wouldn’t be surprised to find myself at the Genius Bar a few times with this new one getting it replaced as well.

Post reply on HN