Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

IntelliJ IDEA and PyCharm Running on Haiku

discuss.haiku-os.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 84 posts

Re: IntelliJ IDEA and PyCharm Running on Haiku

#61

Post by pjmlp »

mhd wrote: post #58
pjmlp wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which happens to be the fallacy of GNU/Linux desktop as well. The beauty of each desktop centric OS is the whole platform, the set of SDK languages, the respective frameworks for exposing the OS and hardware features that make the desktop experience unique, and IDE developer experience. If it is to run desktop agnostic apps, then anything can do.

There's always been some leeway in that. Both the original Mac OS and Windows had a variety of languages targeting it, but they tended to strive towards emulating the core SDK experience (if they weren't a wrapper around it). Unix had it different with there being no core experience in the first place -- X11 being a glorified terminal multiplexer plus xeyes. Whether it was the commercial Unices with OpenLook/NeWS vs…

Hence the opinion Steve Jobs had about UNIX, NeXTSTEP's POSIX support being more geared towards bringing software in and win DoD contracts than anything else.

I don't need such vision, it is how it would look like if all OSes happen to jungle browser instances, ChromeOS style, while a big chunk of applications runs on someone else's computer, abstracted via language runtimes.

The return to mainframe's timesharing days and very sad outcome for desktop computers, with the minimum experience common to all vendors.

Graphical APIs not able to take advantage of hardware, hardware support that takes years to have minimal APIs, drawing UIs pilling divs customized with CSS and JS to mimic visual behaviours.

Re: IntelliJ IDEA and PyCharm Running on Haiku

#62

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

Fnoord wrote: post #46
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We need an open-source operating system 100% focused on the desktop. I agree. In my opinion though, Haiku's insistence on becoming just another platform to run your UNIX software stack on means it will probably never succeed at that goal.

What do you propose as alternative? All of these UNIX tools provide backwards compatibility.

We have virtualization nowadays to cover compatibility requirements.

Re: IntelliJ IDEA and PyCharm Running on Haiku

#63

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

orionblastar wrote: post #43

Haiku is progressing great. Anyone heard of AROS which is a rewrite of AmigaOS? I try to keep up with free and open source Windows alternatives for the PC. We need something that even senior citizens can use to replace Windows XP on a system they can't afford to upgrade. Just the basic word processing Internet surfing and email. ReactOS is progressing as well. OSFree the OS/2 rewrite seems slower but using the M4 ker…

> We need something that even senior citizens can use to replace Windows XP on a system they can't afford to upgrade. Just the basic word processing Internet surfing and email.

I am probably one of the biggest naysayers of Linux as a desktop platform, so keep that in mind when I ask: What's wrong with Linux for this use case?

If all you need is an internet kiosk, Linux is fine. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that's been the Linux Desktop's targeted use case for about a decade now because their cultural attitude is that anyone who isn't a C greybeard needs to be bottle fed.

Re: IntelliJ IDEA and PyCharm Running on Haiku

#64

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

Fnoord wrote: post #47
orionblastar wrote: post #43

Haiku is progressing great. Anyone heard of AROS which is a rewrite of AmigaOS? I try to keep up with free and open source Windows alternatives for the PC. We need something that even senior citizens can use to replace Windows XP on a system they can't afford to upgrade. Just the basic word processing Internet surfing and email. ReactOS is progressing as well. OSFree the OS/2 rewrite seems slower but using the M4 ker…

If I understood correct one reason it is progressing great is that they're able to (back)port code from FreeBSD. Not sure about the other ones. The way I see it, it is nostalgia. Which has its value. For ReactOS, it also provides backwards compatibility and essentially is a FOSS and free as in beer Windows implementation. However, there are also progressive OSes such as Nix, Tails, Qubes to name 3, or microkernel-bas…

Nix, Tails, and Qubes are all just Linux dude.

Re: IntelliJ IDEA and PyCharm Running on Haiku

#65

Post by waddlesplash »

gecko wrote: post #57
chaz6 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can now run your development tools on Haiku, what would it take to make Haiku a server platform for running your server-side applications?

Haiku is a single-user system, so effectively any privilege escalation gets you root. That's enough right there for me to keep it off a server.

Yes, while we need to fix the privilege issues and add proper user segmentation, we don't ever intend to aim at being a server OS.

Re: IntelliJ IDEA and PyCharm Running on Haiku

#66

Post by petre »

Fnoord wrote: post #46
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We need an open-source operating system 100% focused on the desktop. I agree. In my opinion though, Haiku's insistence on becoming just another platform to run your UNIX software stack on means it will probably never succeed at that goal.

What do you propose as alternative? All of these UNIX tools provide backwards compatibility.

Plan9? But it's still ahead of its time. I think it would be quite hard to port something like Haiku UI to such a platform. POSIX is fine.

Re: IntelliJ IDEA and PyCharm Running on Haiku

#67

Post by waddlesplash »

mike_hearn wrote: post #51
joshumax wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked at CodeWeavers during the development of Proton, and one of the biggest hurdles for getting Wine (and therefore Proton) running on Haiku is the memory layout of Haiku[1] and subsequent failures of mmap(). I have a Haiku port that runs basic applications out-of-tree, but many Win32 programs crash on Haiku still. 1: https://wiki.winehq.org/Haiku

You could just bypass the preloader completely. It exists only to work around the Linux ASLR implementation which would otherwise tend to place DSOs randomly in the address space, potentially overlapping regions that Windows keeps reserved. If Haiku doesn't implement ASLR, or lets you easily disable it, or alternatively would accept patches to ensure its address space layout is always Win32 compatible (better!) then…

Haiku implements ASLR but there are ways to disable it. They are undocumented private APIs, though.

mmap on a fixed address should work just fine, unless the address is outside the normal range or in an already mapped region, which seems to be a problem on 32-bit systems. I think there are some emulators we have ports of which already use MAP_FIXED quite a bit.

Re: IntelliJ IDEA and PyCharm Running on Haiku

#68

Post by pjmlp »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #44
waddlesplash wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In case you haven't noticed, a majority of people on Windows or macOS use software that was originally part of the "UNIX software stack" -- between SSH, bash, GCC, FFmpeg, etc. I am pretty sure you could find at least one piece of "originally UNIX" software that at least a majority of programmers using any given OS use. Anyway, I think you miss the point of Haiku if you think it'll never get anywhere because of how m…

A majority of programmers on Windows perhaps, certainly not a majority of people on Windows.

Not even the majority, UNIX refugees, yes.

Re: IntelliJ IDEA and PyCharm Running on Haiku

#69

Post by pjmlp »

petre wrote: post #66
Fnoord wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you propose as alternative? All of these UNIX tools provide backwards compatibility.

Plan9? But it's still ahead of its time. I think it would be quite hard to port something like Haiku UI to such a platform. POSIX is fine.

Actually Inferno, Plan 9 was the middle iteration.

Re: IntelliJ IDEA and PyCharm Running on Haiku

#70

Post by pjmlp »

eitland wrote: post #49
karmakaze wrote: post #25

Not that many may care but also running is NetBeans IDE 8.2.

For years Netbeans has been my go-to IDE for Java and PHP. It Just Works and contrary to certain other IDEs it uses Mavens pom file directly instead of translating it to some other (even hehe) less ideal format. (Recently though Visual Studio Code has been a so big part of my developer life because of Dot Net Core, and Netbeans was so late and unclear about their 9.0 release that I tested just using VS Code for Java…

And it supports mixed language debugging (Java/C/C++), where JetBrains will happily sell a license of CLion instead of supporting it on InteliJ.
Post reply on HN