Daring Fireball: Apple's Pricing Advantage • Hacker News Board

Re: Daring Fireball: Apple's Pricing Advantage

#61

Post by _delirium » Tue, Nov 09, 2010, 10:41 PM UTC

cheald wrote: post #18

_delirium wrote: post #2

I've noticed this even with normal laptops at the smaller end. If you're looking for a 15" laptop, you can find a lot cheaper PCs than the $1,799 MacBook Pro. But if you're looking for a 13" laptop with roughly equivalent processing power and weight, it's hard to find a PC laptop much cheaper than the $1,099 MacBook or $1,199 MacBook Pro. Some are considerably more, because while Apple prices the 13" at the bottom of…

Having just recently priced laptops, I didn't have this experience. A 13" MBP is $1200 for the bare-bones options (4GB RAM, Core 2 Duo, 250GB 5400 RPM SATA). It weighs about 4.5 lbs. They want an additional $400 for an extra 4GB of RAM (wtf?) A Dell Inspiron 14" with the same specs clocks in at $665 at 4.9 lbs (which is still under the 5lb "ultraportable" mark). A Lenovo U350 with similar specs clocks in at $700 and…

I'm not able to find any of those with: 1. a comparable battery life; or 2. a comparable video card, though, which is what the higher-end ultraportables I was looking at for comparison have. For me, the battery is the main sticking point; I could compromise on the GPU.

Re: Daring Fireball: Apple's Pricing Advantage

#62

Post by cdavid » Tue, Nov 09, 2010, 10:44 PM UTC

cheald wrote: post #18

_delirium wrote: post #2

I've noticed this even with normal laptops at the smaller end. If you're looking for a 15" laptop, you can find a lot cheaper PCs than the $1,799 MacBook Pro. But if you're looking for a 13" laptop with roughly equivalent processing power and weight, it's hard to find a PC laptop much cheaper than the $1,099 MacBook or $1,199 MacBook Pro. Some are considerably more, because while Apple prices the 13" at the bottom of…

Having just recently priced laptops, I didn't have this experience. A 13" MBP is $1200 for the bare-bones options (4GB RAM, Core 2 Duo, 250GB 5400 RPM SATA). It weighs about 4.5 lbs. They want an additional $400 for an extra 4GB of RAM (wtf?) A Dell Inspiron 14" with the same specs clocks in at $665 at 4.9 lbs (which is still under the 5lb "ultraportable" mark). A Lenovo U350 with similar specs clocks in at $700 and…

If you consider that CPU, ram and hard drive is the only thing that matters in a laptop, then yes, apple is definitely overpriced. But mac unibody, battery indicator, magnetic connector, pluggable power unit (to change the type of connector for different countries), etc... have a cost, and I would gladly pay a few more bucks for it.

Last, I got two PC laptops: both were broken beyond repair after 3 years, whereas my unibody mac book look almost new after 1.5 year, and my first, plastic macbook works perfectly (3 years old). The only PC laptop that were not crap in my experience were lenovo, but surprise, those were expensive as well.

Re: Daring Fireball: Apple's Pricing Advantage

#63

Post by frou_dh » Tue, Nov 09, 2010, 10:46 PM UTC

mattmaroon wrote: post #56

First of all, I priced this at work out of curiosity when buying some Mac Pros and some Macbook Pros. You can get a PC with the same hardware specs as a Mac Pro for about half the cost. You can also get a PC with the same specs for about the same cost if you get one of the gamer brands, but just a Dell or HP Quad core machine is far cheaper than a Mac Pro, assuming all things that can be compared on an apples to appl…

Mac Pros have Xeon CPUs and ECC RAM. Were you comparing with similar "workstation" grade PCs?

(Whether the average Mac Pro user gets any real benefit from these parts is another question)

Re: Daring Fireball: Apple's Pricing Advantage

#64

Post by swombat » Tue, Nov 09, 2010, 10:46 PM UTC

guelo wrote: post #60

While it is true that Android phones haven't been able to undercut iPhones by much, the argument doesn't hold up for tablets and iPods because these markets haven't really been entered by the Android manufacturers yet. The Samsung Galaxy tablet is at the forefront but the real wave of Android tablets is months away waiting for the release of Gingerbread. Expect a lot of announcements around CES time. As for the iPod…

Great, so they'll have an iPad competitor out round about the time that the second version of the iPad comes out and blows the current iPad out of the water, then?

Colour me unimpressed.

Re: Daring Fireball: Apple's Pricing Advantage

#65

Post by trotsky » Tue, Nov 09, 2010, 10:48 PM UTC

ary wrote: post #37

trotsky wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

various quotes: Now, even putting quality aside, competitors can’t match Apple’s prices. no one else can afford to match the iPad’s price with a comparably sized touchscreen display iPods, iPhones, iPads. Across all of them, Apple’s prices are either comparable, or lower, than their competition.

Now, even putting quality aside, competitors can’t match Apple’s prices. The only Archos device that is shipping and comparable to an Apple product (the iPad) is this: http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/02/archos-70-internet-tablet... This is not something that can be easily compared to the iPad. Yes it is cheaper, but the two devices aren't the same. The three biggest (and easily measured) differences are the screen si…

Engadget quoted $300 for the 10" but it seems to have come out a more expensive - The 8gb is on the shelves in singapore for S$499 which is about $390, and the 16gb for S$599. Other commenters should note that these devices are in retail (though they are just arriving).

I'm not trying to convince anyone to buy an archos tablet - I'm sure not in the market for one. I just don't get how it doesn't contradict "even putting quality aside, competitors can’t match Apple’s prices".

http://www.techgoondu.com/2010/11/09/hands-on-archos-70-and-...

Re: Daring Fireball: Apple's Pricing Advantage

#66

Post by jseliger » Tue, Nov 09, 2010, 10:50 PM UTC

kemiller wrote: post #12

Another factor here is that mobile devices are all a tier or two down from personal computers in terms of the raw number of dollars. Seems like a 15% premium is something people will consider paying if it only amounts to $30, but might not if it's $300. This was especially true in the early days of the PC revolution. The Mac 128K sold for $2495 at the time, which is more than $5000 in today's dollars[1]. I can't find…

I think your first bullet point is especially significant, and I wrote about a similar issue here: http://jseliger.com/2010/09/30/computers-and-network-effects... . If your primary uses for a computer these days are e-mail, browsing the web, using office software, playing DVDs, and listening to music... pretty much any computer in the last five to ten years will do just fine. You won't get massive increases in speed and ease like you did in the 90s.

Re: Daring Fireball: Apple's Pricing Advantage

#67

Post by ary » Tue, Nov 09, 2010, 10:53 PM UTC

trotsky wrote: post #65

ary wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now, even putting quality aside, competitors can’t match Apple’s prices. The only Archos device that is shipping and comparable to an Apple product (the iPad) is this: http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/02/archos-70-internet-tablet... This is not something that can be easily compared to the iPad. Yes it is cheaper, but the two devices aren't the same. The three biggest (and easily measured) differences are the screen si…

Engadget quoted $300 for the 10" but it seems to have come out a more expensive - The 8gb is on the shelves in singapore for S$499 which is about $390, and the 16gb for S$599. Other commenters should note that these devices are in retail (though they are just arriving). I'm not trying to convince anyone to buy an archos tablet - I'm sure not in the market for one. I just don't get how it doesn't contradict "even putt…

It doesn't contradict "even putting quality aside, competitors can’t match Apple’s prices" because competing on price means offering something that is essentially the same for a lower price. The iPad isn't comparable to either the Archos 7" or 10" tablets.

Re: Daring Fireball: Apple's Pricing Advantage

#68

Post by saint-loup » Tue, Nov 09, 2010, 10:54 PM UTC

jon_hendry wrote: post #46

andreyf wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's talking about cost of actually building the device. A big part of the iPhone's consumer price ($700 for 32gig) is markup, as he points out in comparing it to the price of the iPod touch, which is $300 for a comprable model. In other words, he's claiming that Apple could undercut the A8181 Desire or the Galaxy S on price, but keeping the customer choose between "FREE* shiny new phone" or "$200* shiny new phone" r…

" as he points out in comparing it to the price of the iPod touch, which is $300 for a comprable model." But the iPod touch has some corners cut. No anti-oil coating on the screen, for one. It also retains the former body shape, not the flat-glass-on-both-sides iPhone 4 style.

One other downside for the Touch: no IPS display.

Re: Daring Fireball: Apple's Pricing Advantage

#69

Post by napierzaza » Tue, Nov 09, 2010, 10:57 PM UTC

mattmaroon wrote: post #56

First of all, I priced this at work out of curiosity when buying some Mac Pros and some Macbook Pros. You can get a PC with the same hardware specs as a Mac Pro for about half the cost. You can also get a PC with the same specs for about the same cost if you get one of the gamer brands, but just a Dell or HP Quad core machine is far cheaper than a Mac Pro, assuming all things that can be compared on an apples to appl…

Did you just compare the Nook to the iPad? How is that at all comparable to the feature set of the iPad? Go on.

You're also somehow assuming that other phones are not subsidized??? This has been going on before the iPhone existed so don't be surprised if the Android is too. So no, what AT&T pays doesn't count.

One of the main things I've never heard enough about in comparing Macs and PCs is the service. The ease of service with defects and breakage with Apple is world class. That's surely something that Apple factors into the price and Apple thinks it's worth it. Software etc as well. So I don't know why Gruber thinks he can really compare those things.

Re: Daring Fireball: Apple's Pricing Advantage

#70

Post by jmreid » Tue, Nov 09, 2010, 10:57 PM UTC

cheald wrote: post #18

_delirium wrote: post #2

I've noticed this even with normal laptops at the smaller end. If you're looking for a 15" laptop, you can find a lot cheaper PCs than the $1,799 MacBook Pro. But if you're looking for a 13" laptop with roughly equivalent processing power and weight, it's hard to find a PC laptop much cheaper than the $1,099 MacBook or $1,199 MacBook Pro. Some are considerably more, because while Apple prices the 13" at the bottom of…

Having just recently priced laptops, I didn't have this experience. A 13" MBP is $1200 for the bare-bones options (4GB RAM, Core 2 Duo, 250GB 5400 RPM SATA). It weighs about 4.5 lbs. They want an additional $400 for an extra 4GB of RAM (wtf?) A Dell Inspiron 14" with the same specs clocks in at $665 at 4.9 lbs (which is still under the 5lb "ultraportable" mark). A Lenovo U350 with similar specs clocks in at $700 and…

You're not taking into account Mac OS X and iLife (among other things), which are major pluses. Especially when you're responsible for other's tech support.