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Microsoft changed how it interviews software developers

businessinsider.fr

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Re: Microsoft changed how it interviews software developers

#61

Post by m0zg »

cm2187 wrote: post #38
sxp wrote: post #3

https://blog.usejournal.com/rethinking-how-we-interview-in-m... is the original post by a PM at Microsoft. It doesn't have any useful information about a pure technical interview for software engineering. >(Note: I started at Microsoft when we were still asking questions about why manhole covers were round, how many ping pong balls would fill a 747, and how to reverse a linked list. In 20 years here, I’ve yet to have…

But the real question is whether you can fill a 747 with internal policies and procedures!

^ this person is probably a PM at Microsoft. :-) When I worked there (over a decade ago) the place was so regimented you couldn't rip a fart without having to write a specification and estimating a schedule.

Re: Microsoft changed how it interviews software developers

#62

Post by chasing »

> Under the new process, Microsoft shares the interview questions in advance so that candidates can prepare. During the interview itself, a candidate might run through a real scenario or problem the team is trying to solve.

LOVE IT.

I think best when I have a chance to actually think, not when I’m participating in some odd job interview game show.

Re: Microsoft changed how it interviews software developers

#63

Post by democracy »

jasonkester wrote: post #57
khazhoux wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you apply for a full-time software engineering position at a large company today, you will be run through the all-day series-of-hourlong-interviews, even if you are a referral. It is possible for the hiring manager to work closely with recruiter and recruiting coordinator to craft a more customized interview process, but that's rare (and, impossible at a place like Google, which decentralizes hiring). The value of…

You use the term "apply for a job", which might explain the disconnect. The post you reply to isn't about applying for jobs. You don't want to "apply" for things. You want your google VP to be having a beer with your ex-boss and worrying that his pet project was going to fail because they just can't find a guy who can really $X. But your ex boss knows a guy who absoulutely can $X, and just finished $X'ing his company…

We need more stories like this for the New Years eve.

Re: Microsoft changed how it interviews software developers

#64

Post by democracy »

jasonkester wrote: post #51
Swizec wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like you're having the wrong conversations. With all your experience, why are you still going into companies through the front door? Where's your network? Fundamentally: Why are you having the "Can you code your way out of a wet paper bag" conversation instead of the "How much value can you add to this company" conversation? Perhaps my experience as a consultant/freelancer is breaking my perspective. It's…

Well said. It occurs to me that my last job interview that involved convincing the other party that I was a good developer was back in 1999 when I had just a few years of experience. Since then every gig has come via an introduction by a former boss or co-worker, or by introducing myself to somebody with hiring authority and using a pile of impressive artifacts to skip the "can this guy do the work" questions. The fi…

You should also be young, healthy and happy - noone wants the opposite, right?

Re: Microsoft changed how it interviews software developers

#65

Post by whack »

Here's what they are doing, from the linked blog post:

> Our dev teams had taken to working with candidates to solve a bug or feature as part of the interview process. It was a collaborative effort with the candidate and the team working together to solve a real problem.

Sounds like a great idea.

Except it's so variable. What if you get lucky and you get a easy bug, whereas someone else gets something much harder. Let's standardize that by giving everyone the same task to work on.

And what if we want to hire people who aren't fluent in your project's programming language? That would be a big handicap for them. Let's deal with that by having minimally sized "projects" in all the languages, and allowing the candidate to choose their preferred language.

And we don't want the interviews to be biased against people who don't already have domain knowledge in a specific field. So let's make the task generic enough to be approachable by any good programmer.

Congrats, if you did all of the above, you've reinvented leetcode style interviews.

There's some cool stuff that MS has put into practice. I like the focus on reading/understanding existing code, instead of just writing code. I also like the relaxed pacing and "open book" approach.

But for the most part, I don't think this is really as revolutionary as people think it is.

Re: Microsoft changed how it interviews software developers

#66

Post by grecy »

derefr wrote: post #15
antaviana wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the Wikipedia [1] Reasons for the shape might include: * A round manhole cover cannot fall through its circular opening, whereas a square manhole cover might fall in if it were inserted diagonally in the hole. The existence of a "lip" holding up the lid means that the underlying hole is smaller than the cover, so that other shapes might suffice. (A Reuleaux triangle or other curve of constant width would…

Don't forget also: round manhole covers are a Schelling point. Making a manhole cover round is one of the first intuitive shapes you'd think to make them (along with squares and rectangles); and so you'd guess, as a construction company gearing up to sell the concept of concrete manholes with removable iron-plate covers to a municipality (back in the 1800s or whenever we first got them) that what the municipality wil…

> same with screw drives.

Which is why the "Robinson" screw head was invented (Canadians are immensely proud of this one)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives#Robertson

Re: Microsoft changed how it interviews software developers

#67

Post by jghn »

jasonkester wrote: post #57
khazhoux wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you apply for a full-time software engineering position at a large company today, you will be run through the all-day series-of-hourlong-interviews, even if you are a referral. It is possible for the hiring manager to work closely with recruiter and recruiting coordinator to craft a more customized interview process, but that's rare (and, impossible at a place like Google, which decentralizes hiring). The value of…

You use the term "apply for a job", which might explain the disconnect. The post you reply to isn't about applying for jobs. You don't want to "apply" for things. You want your google VP to be having a beer with your ex-boss and worrying that his pet project was going to fail because they just can't find a guy who can really $X. But your ex boss knows a guy who absoulutely can $X, and just finished $X'ing his company…

Since you mention Google, my understanding is that you still go through the standard hiring process

Re: Microsoft changed how it interviews software developers

#68

Post by cheschire »

b_tterc_p wrote: post #54
mancerayder wrote: post #39

Great, now can Netflix, Google and Facebook do this, too? Not because I want to work in these places, but because they influence everyone else and as a senior engineer in the systems space I feel I shouldn't need to study days or weeks for fizzbuzz sorting algorithms questions that are designed to test comp sci recent grads. I have a proven career, and was never suddenly stumped in a project due to not being able to.…

Fizzbuzz is a trivial test to detect people who are basically fraudulent in their claims of programming ability. You shouldn’t need to study for it. Sorting algorithms, sure.

You could just ask the candidate to explain how to use modulus correctly, and not even need to break out the markers.

Re: Microsoft changed how it interviews software developers

#70

Post by jasonkester »

jghn wrote: post #67
jasonkester wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You use the term "apply for a job", which might explain the disconnect. The post you reply to isn't about applying for jobs. You don't want to "apply" for things. You want your google VP to be having a beer with your ex-boss and worrying that his pet project was going to fail because they just can't find a guy who can really $X. But your ex boss knows a guy who absoulutely can $X, and just finished $X'ing his company…

Since you mention Google, my understanding is that you still go through the standard hiring process

Again, always?

If they buy the company that you built specifically to get access to you, do you think you'll still end up getting screened out by some junior dev on a whiteboard? All policies have exceptions. Your goal is to be exceptional.

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