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Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

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Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#61

Post by throwaway12iii »

sitkack wrote: post #53
telotortium wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at the actual household income in various countries, as opposed to the GDP, which doesn't always track household income as well for many OECD countries, it turns out that the US has pretty much the healthcare consumption expected for its average household income: https://randomcriticalanalysis.com/2018/11/19/why-everything... . Based on this analysis, I think the primary issue with US healthcare is the fa…

Please stop using average. Median is a much better measure.

Median and average are not good representations of a distribution.

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#62

Post by taneq »

noja wrote: post #30
pkaye wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at healthcare vs GDP, the US is way above the line compared to comparable countries. https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-... I think scaling the average costs from other countries accounting for GDP would be a good way to set the rates.

Please. You cannot be serious. Are you really saying that pricing in the US healthcare system is so broken that the only way to set prices is to take other countries prices and convert them?

From the point of view of people from other countries: Yes. Your pricing is fucked up.

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#63

Post by huac »

refurb wrote: post #9

My guess is that eventually the govt will step in and start regulating prices if providers don’t. One interesting idea (not well thought out at all) would say that all prices need to be +\- 50% of what Medicare pays. Medicare pays $20,000 for stent placement? Great! You can charge whatever you want up to $30,000. A lot of effort goes into setting Medicare rates (and they are based on self reported costs across the co…

> all prices need to be +\- 50% of what Medicare pays.

This is actually close to what happens with private insurers- they negotiate with a hospital to pay n-times what Medicare pays for some set of treatments.

So why does Medicare pay the least? Because they have the most patients covered of any insurance network in the US. That's a hell of a bargaining factor. More patients = cheaper prices.

The logical conclusion is to then have Medicare for all. That'll regulate all prices to be exactly what Medicare pays!

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#64

Post by refurb »

pkaye wrote: post #10
refurb wrote: post #9

My guess is that eventually the govt will step in and start regulating prices if providers don’t. One interesting idea (not well thought out at all) would say that all prices need to be +\- 50% of what Medicare pays. Medicare pays $20,000 for stent placement? Great! You can charge whatever you want up to $30,000. A lot of effort goes into setting Medicare rates (and they are based on self reported costs across the co…

If you look at healthcare vs GDP, the US is way above the line compared to comparable countries. https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-... I think scaling the average costs from other countries accounting for GDP would be a good way to set the rates.

One challenge is the mix of spending is actually quite different even adjusting for GDP!

Adjusted for GDP, US spending on inpatient procedures is somewhat inline. However, spending for outpatient procedures is way higher. Americans just have a lot more outpatient stuff done than other countries.[1]

[1] McKinsey analysis of US healthcare spending; search my history for actual link or google it!

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#65

Post by AmericanChopper »

lostlogin wrote: post #59
AmericanChopper wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the developed world, the price of routine checkups are not what people would generally be referring to when discussing _quality_ of healthcare. Generally speaking, the US has the best facilities, technology, expertise and pharmaceuticals available. Which is why people come from all over the world for procedures that simply aren’t available elsewhere. Again, I’m not talking about the problems with accessibility, me…

This weird argument pops up regularly. In relation to New Zealand (where I am) it’s argued that the US is subsidising the cost of drug scripts. It’s beyond me quite how NZs drug buying agency is running roughshod over the rights of drug companies that have multiple insurance companies in the US that are bigger customers. What’s the agenda behind this argument?

There’s no agenda behind it at all. If profits in the US market go down, they either have to go up elsewhere, or investment has to go down to match. This is very basic maths.

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#66

Post by lostlogin »

Scoundreller wrote: post #31
stickfigure wrote: post #23

The next logical step is to require written estimates in advance, just like the auto repair industry.

That only works for non-urgent care and when estimates are cheap enough to encourage shopping around. Although even free estimates cost you time.

Could you explain a little further? Most industries are able to provide quotes, why shouldn’t healthcare facilities?

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#67

Post by refurb »

taneq wrote: post #62
noja wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please. You cannot be serious. Are you really saying that pricing in the US healthcare system is so broken that the only way to set prices is to take other countries prices and convert them?

From the point of view of people from other countries: Yes. Your pricing is fucked up.

That sounds like an awesome idea if you completely ignore all the important things about healthcare differences across countries.

In fact, it sounds like a great way to make things worse!

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#69

Post by lostlogin »

alexis_fr wrote: post #46
stickfigure wrote: post #23

The next logical step is to require written estimates in advance, just like the auto repair industry.

and require the same price for lone customers as what is negociated with insurances.

Is this right though? Surely buying 20k knee joint replacements should earn a discount? Just setting it such that it wasn’t taking the piss would seem a vast improvement.

Re: Hospital prices are about to go public in the U.S.

#70

Post by trevyn »

lostlogin wrote: post #58
trevyn wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This could also be due to people in the US simply seeking more care than in other countries.

What’s the logic in that? If the cost is socialised surely you’d expect more people to seek care than if they were paying?

I think it’s cultural; strong families/communities seem correlated with not wanting to be a burden on that family/community when your time comes. Individualism, as in the US, seems more correlated with trying to stay alive/healthy at any cost.
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