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The End of the Ad-Supported Web

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Re: The End of the Ad-Supported Web

#61

Post by systematical »

baal80spam wrote: post #5
PlutoIsAPlanet wrote: post #3

Ad companies got caught putting their hand in the cookie jar and people have had enough. There's nothing wrong with an ad supported web, but it got abused, with tracking going too far and ad companies constantly trying to defeat privacy-protecting features. They have no one to blame but themselves.

> There's nothing wrong with an ad supported web I very much disagree with this statement. I simply can't stand ads in my internet and uBlock Origin is the first thing I install in a fresh browser. I can't fathom browsing the web without it anymore.

I have no problem with reasonable ads as a means of compensating a website for free content, but the free market once again went too far here. There is a sense of entitlement that just gets under my skin when people think they can just have stuff for free.

Re: The End of the Ad-Supported Web

#62

Post by systematical »

akvadrako wrote: post #22
orev wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that the reason you feel the need to immediately block ads is because of how they have been abused and pushed to further and further absurdity over the years.

That may be the point, but it's wrong. Advertising is manipulative and causes people to make bad decisions. It shouldn't be allowed at all.

So spend tons of time and money building a startup, but don't advertise it...got it. Sound economics.

Re: The End of the Ad-Supported Web

#63

Post by spyckie2 »

Going away from ads is solely a business model question. Ads (and micro payments) allow services to collect value much closer to the actual utility curve of a user.

The issue with other models, (like charging a flat fee - ie, 1$ per article) is that some people will not want to pay the full amount while others are willing to pay a lot more than the listed price. You lose out on both ends - you lose money you would have earned from the people who would pay $.50 or $1000 to access it.

Ads allow the company to extract value out of the content closer to actual value of the content at scale. The hard part is finding a different business model that does that task better.

Re: The End of the Ad-Supported Web

#64

Post by ElFitz »

akvadrako wrote: post #22
orev wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that the reason you feel the need to immediately block ads is because of how they have been abused and pushed to further and further absurdity over the years.

That may be the point, but it's wrong. Advertising is manipulative and causes people to make bad decisions. It shouldn't be allowed at all.

> Advertising is manipulative and causes people to make bad decisions.

So do a lot of unasked opinions, especially on the internet (oh the irony). They're somehow still allowed to have and share them.

Re: The End of the Ad-Supported Web

#65

Post by everdrive »

Viliam1234 wrote: post #55
yayana wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know that is true, I spend more than half my time on resources similar to (sometimes even from) the pre-commercial Internet. The existence of the Ad driven Internet is disruptive even if it were pretty benign simply because it has money and it wants all the engagement.

> it wants all the engagement This. From my user perspective, a good website is one that gives me the information that I need, when I need it, in minimum necessary time. From ad-driven websites's perspective, a good user is one that visits the website as often as possible, and stays as long as possible; also provides all kinds of personal data (in ideal case, also on other people). Problem is, even if I turn off the…

Agreed 100%. I don't believe there's a good top-down solution here, though. Cultivate a few websites that don't have bad design, and otherwise spend more time reading books. (or, just using some medium that is not the internet)

Re: The End of the Ad-Supported Web

#66

Post by everdrive »

matt4077 wrote: post #38
keithnz wrote: post #32

The irony of the articles website asking to turn off adblocker :) I'm not sure what a non ad supported web would look like. I'm fairly sure my local newspapers would collapse. They are drastically shrinking already. Seems hard to make a buck in journalism these days. we also hate "paywalls", we expect everything available for free and, the more tech savvy, are more than happy to block the ads with adblockers. While I…

It seems like most people are deeply cynical now, as in “all politicians are corrupt, anyway”, “journalists are corrupt/incompetent”, etc. Or, at least, that’s how they justify running every last publisher into the ground for reasons as spacious as “they are intruding on my rights by loading this unnesseray JS library”. Once all medium-sized papers are gone (i. e. soon) it will probably get worse, then downhill from…

Subscribe to a real, physical paper. Use the internet less. So many easy, practical solutions here.

Re: The End of the Ad-Supported Web

#67

Post by matt4077 »

everdrive wrote: post #66
matt4077 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like most people are deeply cynical now, as in “all politicians are corrupt, anyway”, “journalists are corrupt/incompetent”, etc. Or, at least, that’s how they justify running every last publisher into the ground for reasons as spacious as “they are intruding on my rights by loading this unnesseray JS library”. Once all medium-sized papers are gone (i. e. soon) it will probably get worse, then downhill from…

Subscribe to a real, physical paper. Use the internet less. So many easy, practical solutions here.

I hate to break it to you, but physical magazines are somewhat linked to their internet equivalent. If your local papers’ website is offline, “I’ll just by buy the physical paper” might not actually be a workable strategy, for obvious reasons.

In the best possible light, you may be saying that Peoples’ willingness to pay for content will increase as that content b comes rarer and rarer. In this scenario, you are already operating on the assumption that independent publishers will further dwindle, and I’m not convinced that whereever the swee spot will be, it will anywhere close to the vibrant media landscape a civil society needs for survival.

Re: The End of the Ad-Supported Web

#68

Post by bobajeff »

mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #27
geocar wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who do you think should sponsor the creation of arts and the publication of news? I'd be okay with increasing taxes to cover it, or using a UK-style TV license (Internet Publishing License anyone?) and requiring people seek "Internet commissioners" like we have for Television[1], [2]. [1]: http://www.pbs.org/about/producing-pbs/proposal-process/ [2]: https://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning Another option is micropayments…

Why do we need a funding model for arts or news publication? For example, most of the artistic content I consume (aside from cinema) originates from people who self-publish online (blogs, articles, podcasts) and do not involve advertising nor ask for donations in the delivery of the content. Those people like creating and delivering content to others for free. They are happy to lose their own money in exchange for th…

This is my thought as well.

Content creation is a passion industry so creators should be prepared for making less than people in other industries.

Maybe creators should be more valued by society. If that is the case giving up our attention and privacy for free content is not the best way for a society to support them.

Re: The End of the Ad-Supported Web

#69

Post by majewsky »

kodablah wrote: post #53
majewsky wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder where the line is. My helper Android library that obtains an IP? GDPR only applies to parties who store and process user data. If your library doesn't talk to your own servers when embedded in someone else's app, you've got nothing to worry about.

My library processes it. Or does it have to both store and process? So my SaaS analytics service that only stores and gives it back out unprocessed is ok? It's less about specific hypotheticals and more about the general ambiguity around the risks.

When I say "process", I meant to say "process on your own infrastructure".

Re: The End of the Ad-Supported Web

#70

Post by expertentipp »

Internet browser is pretty well sandboxed with limited access to the IO of the hosting device. Actually, extensive tracking is the worse that can happen and luckily the awareness is high. Now, imagine what is happening in the native mobile applications:)
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