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How Facebook Is Fueling the French Populist Rage

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Re: How Facebook Is Fueling the French Populist Rage

#62
post #23
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the protests against the democratically elected leadership during the Arab spring... Oh wait. You may hate something equally under any regime but there's a huge difference when that something is done in a democracy versus basically any other common form or government. In democracies issues can be (are?) solved at the election booth. Not so much in a dictatorship, a monarchy, or any "pseudo-democracy" (see Chi…

> In democracies issues can be (are?) solved at the election booth. Not so much in a dictatorship, a monarchy, or any "pseudo-democracy" (see China), etc. These people were in these very same election booths last year so clearly issues aren't being solved that way. Also, we need to step down our high moral horse and stop patronizing other nations by bringing up our holy "democracies". There has been an increasing and…

I'm not patronizing any nation or bringing up the "holy" democracy. Even jumping the gun and introducing that "holy" in there makes betrays your message's very... zealoty nature. That is entirely your wording and understanding. If you want to make a point do it without distorting the message you're replying to into oblivion.

This being said, to this day there is no better real world alternative to democracy. I take it you know very little of how Russia and China work internally. It's going to sound cynical but if you did you'd appreciate the "lesser evil" of western democracy. Think at least of the fact that you're now free to express these opinions, as you do.

You know the upside of democracy? With enough people behind you you can easily install dictatorship. The other way around needs slightly more sacrifices. Pretty sure those people fighting in the Arab spring against their not elected leaders weren't doing it just to jump on the bashing hype train ;).

Re: How Facebook Is Fueling the French Populist Rage

#63

What's with all this defense of facebook in the comments on hacker news lately?

They employ a lot of programmers, I imagine at least some of them are here.

Not to mention PR firms.

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/facebook-hired-firm-h...

Re: How Facebook Is Fueling the French Populist Rage

#64

I'm leery of any movement that the media refers to as "populist" as it seems many of these movements in the past years have been fueled by concerted efforts by despotic governments to destabilize democracies (Ukraine, US) or spread internal discord (Myanmar). Facebook and Twitter play a key role in these influence operations by not adequately detecting and removing accounts controlled by these despotic governments un…

Or the other way, by governments of democratic countries to destabilize nondemocratic countries, which is arguably easier.

Re: How Facebook Is Fueling the French Populist Rage

#65
post #9

And it could merely be that folk on the edge of French society — truck drivers, provincial plumbers, builders, deliverymen, teachers, parents — are saying `Enough is enough. Stop making our lives harder.’

Thats not the favored narritave worldwide. We are being sold that the french are antarchist ingrates on american media. I still don't knkw how to get an unbiased view.

Re: How Facebook Is Fueling the French Populist Rage

#66
post #13

Damned if they do, damned if they don't. Personally, I feel that a lot of this hate towards Facebook is done by media types who are jealous that Facebook has stolen their role as a place to find news, no matter if it's fake or real.

Yeah, as much as I dislike Facebook, at this point I'm kind of concerned about how much bad press is coming out about one company. Most other tech companies (especially the ones still in the "hustling" phase) are just as bad as FB if not worse. It's starting to feel like a coordinated smear campaign, even if all of it is accurate.

I agree that this type of headline would've been written like:

"Facebook Gives People A Voice in France" - or something along those lines, a few years ago, if the Arab Spring is anything to go by.

The writer's perspective very much matters in this type of articles. It's especially obvious in politics (although many people still don't notice it, and think they are just being served "the facts").

That said, I'll hardly spill a tear over people "over-criticizing" Facebook. If there's one company that's worthy of waves and waves of criticism, Facebook certainly qualifies for that role.

It certainly deserves it more than Tesla, which, with the exception of the criticism of the reckless promotion and implementation of Autopilot, I think the criticism of Tesla lately has been largely off-base and undeserved.

But for some reason, people seem to assume that both good news and bad news should be delivered evenly throughout the year, or something. Like they get surprised when there's a lot of bad news/negative press continuing for many months about something (whether it's Tesla, Facebook, or cryptocurrencies), but forget the same has been true about the good news about those things in the past, too. The good and bad news are almost never evenly distributed over a period of time. They are far more likely to come in bursts of either positive or negative stories.

Not long ago, I remember reading on this very site comments dismissing the idea that Facebook will suffer over the Cambridge Analytica. I said then that Facebook will likely not see an immediate effect, but will likely see it over the long term, when it starts declining, the Cambridge Analytica will be one of the reasons for that decline.

All of these negative news stories you see now are connected to the Cambridge Analytica story, which seems to have opened a kind of "Pandora's box" for Facebook. It's all downhill from here for Facebook. Some people just haven't realized it yet.

Re: How Facebook Is Fueling the French Populist Rage

#67
post #15

Populist has a derogatory connotation and insulting peoples will seems improper

> Populist has a derogatory connotation For a very good reason. > insulting peoples will seems improper It does seem improper, but drawing the connection between calling out people drawn to populism and insulting them is one of the least discrete attempts at muddying the waters I've seen recently.

Socialism is populism on the Left (i.e. distributing wealth at the point of a gun). Populism on the Right is instead via a more democratic method of building a strong market that lifts all ships.

Re: How Facebook Is Fueling the French Populist Rage

#68

What's with all this defense of facebook in the comments on hacker news lately?

The issue described in the article is not an issue with Facebook. Filter bubbles are an issue that's much larger than Facebook. Blaming it all on Facebook would mean we ignore the fact that they also exist elsewhere.

Re: How Facebook Is Fueling the French Populist Rage

#69
post #51
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because there is no moral equivalence between the despotisms of the middle east and the elected government of a secular democratic republic. Overturning tyrany is good. Attempting to overturn democracies in favor of mob rule is bad.

Democracy is not the perfect system that some people purport it to be. You get someone elected, someone who is far from perfect but he's the only likely candidate to win, so what can you do. And then that person has 4 years to screw you over. That's not just.

While not being perfect, that is still far better than regime in Zimbabwe, Venezuela or North Korea, where the head of state keeps the power as long as he is alive, or is replaced by force by another thug.

Re: How Facebook Is Fueling the French Populist Rage

#70

What's with all this defense of facebook in the comments on hacker news lately?

I'd argue it's more a defence of accuracy than Facebook per se.

Just because you don't like a person or company or country or whatever doesn't mean that it's reasonable to accuse them of all the ills of the world.

I'd even argue that it can be detrimental. If you get enough "Facebook killed my puppy" stories, folk will start ignoring stories about Facebook and miss the stuff that's genuinely a problem.

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