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Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

motherjones.com

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Re: Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

#61
post #27
post #8

My wife just finished up a 22 hour labor and is desperately trying to get some sleep but the nurses refuse to stop yelling and laughing directly outside of her door. It’s not even medical. Just rude.

Ask them to stop, perhaps?

Maybe he felt awkward doing that?

There is also a possibility that their reaction would not favourable. Sure, they may shut up but, afterwards, the relationship between his wife and the carers could become frosty?

Rude people tend not to like their shortcomings being challenged.

Re: Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

#62
post #22

Not only are they "designed to allow patients as little sleep as possible", but also doctors too. Residents and doctors frequently have take on 30-36 hour shifts.. How they could effectively treat patients with this level sleep deprivation is beyond me. Maybe hospitals just have a vendetta on sleep in general?

It's because doctor handovers are surprisingly dangerous.

That's an interesting angle, and I'm sure you're right. I'd like to read more. Do you have a source for that?

Re: Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me the beeping also seemed like a quality backwards solution where much better, seemingly obvious solutions exist. Reality is probably much more complicated though. In a solution like you described and I had in my head we'd need a agreed upon protocol between IV drip and monitoring device. Probably the same standard should be used by other, similar devices. If that doesn't happen we get vendor lock in. In addition…

I’m sure you’re right, but being unable to sleep when you need to heal is bad . "It’s complicated" is not a get-out-of-jail-free card.

May I weigh in with an outside perspective? My impression is this is a cultural issue, i.e. Americans are very insensitive to noisy disturbances during sleep hours. Biggest examples for me are your freight trains. Deadly accidents? Sure, the only solution is to disturb sveryone in a 5 mile radius around each crossing. In my home country this is unthinkable. People get chewed up, sometimes called the police on, for even running the washing machine past 10pm.

Re: Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

#64

Probably rich people in high end hospitals don't have this problem. I don't know this for a fact, I'm just comparing here the shitty experience that I had with the experience that a friend seemed to be having in a luxury hospital.

Well, at least the wealthy end up in private rooms, which is a big help. If you are unfortunate enough to share a room with another patient, then either he will be sick enough that the staff keeps you awake half the night as they attend to him, or he will be feeling fairly well, and will insist on watching Family Feud all night on the TV mounted on the wall.

Re: Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

#65
post #8

My wife just finished up a 22 hour labor and is desperately trying to get some sleep but the nurses refuse to stop yelling and laughing directly outside of her door. It’s not even medical. Just rude.

When I was hospitalized they were playing poker the whole night. I get that it's just a job but jeez, keep it down.

Re: Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

#66
post #26

The article quotes a doctor speaking about nursing care. This is as accurate as asking an automotive engineer about automobile repair. Same field, different skill sets. Nurses are trained to identify trends across many (sometimes too many) patients. Sure its inconvenient if a nurse monitors your blood pressure or oxygen levels every 2 hours after surgery, especially when you are sleeping, and especially if you recove…

> Same with audio on machines, that constant beep is annoying to you, but it means the machines are operating and you are getting your prescribed fluids - silence on a night ward is a sign something is wrong, and quickly precedes an emergency alarm. Sure, if there is one source of beeps, then no beeps would be conspicuous, but when there are many things all beeping, having one of them stop beeping may not be so obvio…

absence of signal is not a good indicator of operation. it is the same signal as total failure of your system.

Re: Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

#67

The article quotes a doctor speaking about nursing care. This is as accurate as asking an automotive engineer about automobile repair. Same field, different skill sets. Nurses are trained to identify trends across many (sometimes too many) patients. Sure its inconvenient if a nurse monitors your blood pressure or oxygen levels every 2 hours after surgery, especially when you are sleeping, and especially if you recove…

> Same with audio on machines, that constant beep is annoying to you, but it means the machines are operating and you are getting your prescribed fluids

This article is a terrible treatment of the issue. The NYT article [1] or actual research papers are far better.

To try and sum up the actual issue that's being discussed: it's a tragedy of the commons situation, where the commons is a patient's sleep.

Every device and procedure priorities derisking above ALL else. In aggregate, this results in a huge negative impact on sleep.

The suggested change in behavior is to simply prioritize quality sleep somewhere about "irrelevant."

From the original research, a few points (from memory):

- Outcomes for non-critical patients are not substantially improved by the "every 2(?) hour vital check" regime. It's followed mostly because of legacy medical inertia

- There is little effort to batch interactions

- A substantial amount of sleep-disrupting noise is a modern hospital is non-functional

From personal experience at a good cancer research hospital in a major city, one omnipresent alarm was a low battery warning... for a device that was plugged into mains power. No one knew how to turn it off or fix it.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/03/upshot/why-hospitals-shou...

Re: Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

#68
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Same with audio on machines, that constant beep is annoying to you, but it means the machines are operating and you are getting your prescribed fluids - silence on a night ward is a sign something is wrong, and quickly precedes an emergency alarm. Sure, if there is one source of beeps, then no beeps would be conspicuous, but when there are many things all beeping, having one of them stop beeping may not be so obvio…

The nurse desk is a SPoF. If something goes wrong with that area, then how can you tell each monitoring machine is working?

How do you know if each machine is reporting in a consistent manner without being there 24/7 and making sure they beep all the time vs %40 of the time?
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