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Clojure REBL [video]

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Re: Clojure REBL [video]

#61

Post by owyn »

wwweston wrote: post #35
owyn wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, PHP supports a REPL too! I sometimes found it useful when working on mediawiki to debug issues when a full blown debugger wasn't necessary. And if you were familiar with the various internal API's it was pretty easy to do simple maintenance tasks through the REPL without needing to write a script.

Which one do you use? I ended up rolling my own years ago and it's worked out fine (other than the fact I've never gotten readln support working), but I've noticed a proliferation of other solutions since about the release of PHP 7 and wonder if they're an improvement.

I used Boris, and the php debugger as a pretty effective shell sometimes. mediawiki had eval.php, which is apparently now shell.php

https://m.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Manual:Shell...

Based on my experience with that I’d definitely add a shell utility to any large application I was working on.

Re: Clojure REBL [video]

#62

Post by chedine »

OK yeah this looks good. Was expecting a tech demo but this is such a sales pitch glorifying a pretty common solution to a pretty common problem. The Intro on eval result not being a data is something that I don't get. If it's not data then what is it? Atleast what is it for the thing that's presenting it? All these while the folks were flaunting how awesome the REPL experience has been and suddenly Stu gives a small intro on how painful it is to eval a code. Just to glorify how awesome this REBL wud be? . I generally love most talks from clj community but not this one.

Re: Clojure REBL [video]

#63

Post by black-tea »

narwally wrote: post #45
Zak wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't really do it in Python and it makes me sad. That really bugs me with a great many popular languages. There's a REPL, but the libraries and tooling don't really embrace it.

It doesn't help that most languages that advertise having a REPL really have more of an interactive shell than a true read-eval-print-loop. Lisps do a really good job of making a distinction between the reader, evaluator, and the printer. It makes it really easy to create tools that use just one or two of these or insert themselves between the different layers to expand the REPLs capabilities.

Yes indeed, and now that repl.it is popular with noob programmers I think that distinction has been lost. Who told them that what they are offering is a REPL? Sigh...

Re: Clojure REBL [video]

#64

Post by zonotope »

logistark wrote: post #31

I think is pretty cool, yes. But fix error messages please.

Error messages have been greatly improved in Clojure version 1.10[1][2]

[edit] more context

1: https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/changes.md#21...

2: https://mobile.twitter.com/puredanger/status/102810365424144...

Re: Clojure REBL [video]

#65

Post by chedine »

chedine wrote: post #62

OK yeah this looks good. Was expecting a tech demo but this is such a sales pitch glorifying a pretty common solution to a pretty common problem. The Intro on eval result not being a data is something that I don't get. If it's not data then what is it? Atleast what is it for the thing that's presenting it? All these while the folks were flaunting how awesome the REPL experience has been and suddenly Stu gives a small…

Unwritten rule of HN is that, one must be a blind supporter of anything clojure, Haskell and must be a blind hater of anything java, Javascript. Downvoters:care to provide reasons??

Re: Clojure REBL [video]

#66

Post by pjmlp »

black-tea wrote: post #8
dmux wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Does any other language even come close to this? Smalltalk

Interesting. But one of the points of Clojure is to get away from the object-oriented way so I'm not sure that I'd like Smalltalk.

Yeah that is why it supports a subset of CLOS.

Re: Clojure REBL [video]

#67

Post by pjmlp »

chillpenguin wrote: post #15
black-tea wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. But one of the points of Clojure is to get away from the object-oriented way so I'm not sure that I'd like Smalltalk.

If I understand it correctly, Smalltalk is really nothing like Java and the mainstream OOP that Clojure is a reaction to.

Smalltalk is dynamic and Java is static.

Smalltalk, it is an experience, given that language, IDE and runtime/OS are all blended together, while Java can only do so much, even with the more advanced IDEs.

Clojure might be a reaction to C++/Java/C# OOP style, but it surely adopts Common Lisp OOP style.

Re: Clojure REBL [video]

#68

Post by pjmlp »

black-tea wrote: post #6
Zak wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't really do it in Python and it makes me sad. That really bugs me with a great many popular languages. There's a REPL, but the libraries and tooling don't really embrace it.

The only tools I've found with decent support for Python and other languages are all emacs based. Same goes for the Clojure and CL ones, actually. It's no surprise, I suppose, because this style of programming is so natural to an emacs user. But it's difficult with Python as soon as you try to do anything beyond a single module. CL and Clojure have proper packages and namespaces so it works fine. But in Python you're…

If you look at commercial tooling for Common Lisp, they can do a little more than plain old Emacs.

Re: Clojure REBL [video]

#69

Post by emmanueloga_ »

westoncb wrote: post #39

Glad to see more work being done on the general purpose data browser concept. I've been spending occasional free moments working on one since 2014[0], and this is the first time I've come across something with any significant overlap in conception[1]. It still blows my mind that I can describe the concept to programmers (and/or show a video demo) and have the most typical response be along the lines of, "but what wou…

> It still blows my mind [...] the typical response is along the lines of, "but what would you use it for?" [...] When is it not useful to see the data your code is operating on?

Status Quo? (the status quo being... print statements?)

Another easy example of a long available better model that is still niche/ignored: pipelines in PowerShell [1] are clearly superior in many fronts, but people prefer keep parsing plain text with regular expressions rather than learn a new shell language.

1: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/powershell/scripting/gettin...

Re: Clojure REBL [video]

#70

Post by mateuszf »

chedine wrote: post #62

OK yeah this looks good. Was expecting a tech demo but this is such a sales pitch glorifying a pretty common solution to a pretty common problem. The Intro on eval result not being a data is something that I don't get. If it's not data then what is it? Atleast what is it for the thing that's presenting it? All these while the folks were flaunting how awesome the REPL experience has been and suddenly Stu gives a small…

> The Intro on eval result not being a data is something that I don't get. If it's not data then what is it?

For an example - while technically a set of all prime numbers is data - you can't just view it in the REPL as a whole. So I interpret the "not data" notion as a shortcut to saying - a subset of data and optionally some way to navigate throgh the rest of it.

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