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U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

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Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#61

Post by pjc50 »

beginningguava wrote: post #29

The opioid epidemic is an amazing example of human psychology and the power of a visual. More people die from it every year than Vietnam, yet there's been no large public outcry to resolve the situation because it isn't right in your face like a 9/11 or pearl harbor. Even ignoring the human impact and just going to economics, those lost lives will cost the US billions in lost productivity over time, yet nobody really…

People have gone to a lot of effort to convince their fellow Americans that those that die from opioids deserve it. I'm sure some will turn up in this thread.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#62

Post by all2 »

peteradio wrote: post #48

Drug overdose and abuse seem to me to be a symptom of something way more troubling. I can't help but feel like there is a sense of uselessness felt by and toward a large population in the US and rather than lift them up we are letting them be snuffed out.

> Drug overdose and abuse seem to me to be a symptom of something way more troubling.

A general feeling of disconnectedness? Perhaps some existential dread in there. The United States (by and large) used to be lashed to religious moorings, which provided some sense of purpose and moral grounding, as well as fending off pesky questions like "what happens to me when I die?"

The statistics that claim the US is still largely religious are hallow. People wear labels of their religion as a means to exclude or silently signal 'better-than-you', when the purpose and message of those religions has nothing to do with that.

I don't mean to say lack of religion is the primary cause of our opioid epidemic, rather a significant contributing factor.

I would venture a guess that things like easy access and over-prescription also play a role.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#64

Post by akuji1993 »

all2 wrote: post #62
peteradio wrote: post #48

Drug overdose and abuse seem to me to be a symptom of something way more troubling. I can't help but feel like there is a sense of uselessness felt by and toward a large population in the US and rather than lift them up we are letting them be snuffed out.

> Drug overdose and abuse seem to me to be a symptom of something way more troubling. A general feeling of disconnectedness? Perhaps some existential dread in there. The United States (by and large) used to be lashed to religious moorings, which provided some sense of purpose and moral grounding, as well as fending off pesky questions like "what happens to me when I die?" The statistics that claim the US is still lar…

I'm honestly shocked how American doctors seem to give out opioid prescriptions for any illness or pain. I've not once heard from somebody here (Germany) that was prescribed opioids by their dentist after a surgery. They usually tell you to take some tylenol and rest at home, I've never heard of somebody getting opioid for that. But I've heard it mentioned multiple times regarding american dentists.

There surely are more examples where the docs seem to be a lot less careful about giving out these drugs. Also I think, and that's not only regarding the US, but all of the world, people should be getting way more education about what these drugs are, what they cause, how they should be taken and how you should stop taking them / what risks it bears if you don't.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#65

Post by kauffj »

pjc50 wrote: post #61
beginningguava wrote: post #29

The opioid epidemic is an amazing example of human psychology and the power of a visual. More people die from it every year than Vietnam, yet there's been no large public outcry to resolve the situation because it isn't right in your face like a 9/11 or pearl harbor. Even ignoring the human impact and just going to economics, those lost lives will cost the US billions in lost productivity over time, yet nobody really…

People have gone to a lot of effort to convince their fellow Americans that those that die from opioids deserve it. I'm sure some will turn up in this thread.

"Deserve" is going overboard, but there's certainly a moral difference between something that happens due to one's own choices, vs. something that happens because it was compelled.

It's reasonable have more sympathy for a conscripted soldier killed in a foreign war he had no desire to fight in than an opioid addict that died from a result of choosing to do drugs.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#66

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

vivekd wrote: post #13

This seems like a case of temporary circumstances and statistical creating a doomsday picture. The temporary circumstances seem to be the suicide rate brought on by the still recovering economy and glib life prospects. Partly related to this is a new deadly drug that is gaining popularity. Add to this the statistical factors like the anti smoking and healthy living campaigns hitting their peak effect a few decades af…

> To me, it seems like life exectancy will improve again as the economy improves and governments find ways to fight fentynal.

I find this exceedingly difficult to believe in the rural areas of the US. The current expansion is almost the longest on record, going on since 2009. The structural forces that have hollowed out the economies of rural areas (widening inequality, e-commerce, globalization, etc.) are only increasing, not decreasing. The drug overdoses may be caused by powerful opiates like fentanyl, but the drug use is mainly a symptom, not cause, of despair.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#67

Post by MichaelApproved »

beginningguava wrote: post #29

The opioid epidemic is an amazing example of human psychology and the power of a visual. More people die from it every year than Vietnam, yet there's been no large public outcry to resolve the situation because it isn't right in your face like a 9/11 or pearl harbor. Even ignoring the human impact and just going to economics, those lost lives will cost the US billions in lost productivity over time, yet nobody really…

Someone replied to you with an ignorant comment that was deleted. I'm copy/pasting it here anyway because they are spewing common misconceptions that need to be squashed.

> The US has 330 million people. Do we really care if a bunch self-select out of the gene pool?

While some people do choose to use drugs with their own free will, this epidemic isn't about that. Many people getting addicted have been initially prescribed the pain killers by a doctor for medical reasons and then got addicted. They didn't use recreationally.

It's thanks to these ignorant comments that make them fearful of seeking help with the addiction.

The was on drugs and the stigma it brings continues it's devastation...

> The only way I would care is if I found out that a foreign power was behind this, i.e. getting people addicted to deadly substances in order to undermine our country. If it's just jackass flunkies doing it because they're jackass flunkies, then I'm just glad they aren't on the highways.

It's not a foreign power, it's our own pharmaceutical companies attacking our citizens.

From lobbying against medical marijuana as an alternative pain killer to pushing false information on doctors and patients about the addictive nature of their drugs.

But pharmaceutical companies don't fit your typical stereotype of a villain and they flood our politics with cash, so they are getting away with murder.

Finally, people regurgitating the garbage like "self-select out of the gene pool" are also a major part of the problem. How someone got addicted to drugs shouldn't be important. Whether It was due to recreational use or by a prescription, they need help and should not be ostracized.

Our public funds should go to recovery centers, not law enforcement for victimless drug use.

There are plenty of laws on the books to arrest someone who harms another, whether on drugs or not. We don't need laws specifically for drug use. Those people need medical help, not jail.

edit: typos

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#68

Post by adventured »

mrweasel wrote: post #18
dmschulman wrote: post #10

The decline is mostly the product of an increase in drug overdose deaths and suicides (likely also related to drug abuse[1]). Cancer mortality is continuing to decline which is nice to hear: "Earlier this century, the steady and robust decline in heart-disease deaths more than offset the rising number from drugs and suicide, Dr. Anderson said. Now, “those declines aren’t there anymore,” he said, and the drug and suic…

> The decline is mostly the product of an increase in drug overdose and suicides The US is pretty much also the only country where suicides are increasing.

Suicide rates in several other developed nations are either higher or compable to the US. Things must be really, really bad in Belgium, Finland and Iceland eh (you know, just three of the nicest countries on Earth). How could Sweden, France and Australia be anywhere near the US rate?

Suicide rates in order per 100k: South Korea 20.2, Belgium 15.7, Japan 14.3, Finland 13.8, US 13.3, Iceland 13.3, France 12.1, Sweden 11.7, Australia 11.7, New Zealand 11.6, Switzerland 11.3, Ireland 10.9, Canada 10.4, Norway 10.1

Others in Europe: Russia 26, Lithuania 25.7, Belarus 21.4, Ukraine 18.5, Latvia 17.2, Estonia 14.4, Hungary 13.6, Moldova 13.4, Poland 13.4, Slovenia 13.3, Austria 11.4

Why are Europeans killing themselves at such high rates?

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#69

Post by stjohnswarts »

kauffj wrote: post #65
pjc50 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have gone to a lot of effort to convince their fellow Americans that those that die from opioids deserve it. I'm sure some will turn up in this thread.

"Deserve" is going overboard, but there's certainly a moral difference between something that happens due to one's own choices, vs. something that happens because it was compelled. It's reasonable have more sympathy for a conscripted soldier killed in a foreign war he had no desire to fight in than an opioid addict that died from a result of choosing to do drugs.

It's not going overboard. I've heard more than one person refer to it as Darwin at work or "they deserved it for being weak"

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#70

Post by stupidbird »

beginningguava wrote: post #29

The opioid epidemic is an amazing example of human psychology and the power of a visual. More people die from it every year than Vietnam, yet there's been no large public outcry to resolve the situation because it isn't right in your face like a 9/11 or pearl harbor. Even ignoring the human impact and just going to economics, those lost lives will cost the US billions in lost productivity over time, yet nobody really…

I think it's the same issue as the prison population being so enormous. When someone does crime/drugs the country collectively just thinks that these people did it to themselves.

I've heard people casually refer to criminals/addicts as animals, it's ridiculous.

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