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China blacklists millions from booking flights as 'social credit' introduced

independent.co.uk

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Re: China blacklists millions from booking flights as 'social credit' introduced

#61

Post by sjg007 »

bitexploder wrote: post #46
will_brown wrote: post #33

Well here in the US we have an actual credit system in place. And since basic necessities are often dependent on credit rating (employment; housing purchaes ; rentals; vehicle financing/lease) it’s pretty dystopian. Not to mention for nearly 20 years now we have had secret no fly lists (no due process to get on or off) and even secret kill lists (no due process), I think it’s just another way to skin the cat, and may…

I don’t think there is much equivalency here. The credit system is a pain, but it is also very simple to have good credit. Anyone, even someone with little money can have good credit. Even if you have medical debt you can maintain your credit rating. People may not know how to do it, but it isn’t too hard. The privacy aspects of it suck, but it just isn’t that dystopian and it’s usage is relatively narrow in society.…

The US does kill its citizens. There's a few terrorists who were US citizens when they were killed by drone strikes.

https://www.aclu.org/video/aclu-ccr-lawsuit-american-boy-kil...

Re: China blacklists millions from booking flights as 'social credit' introduced

#62

Post by fsloth »

As a non-chinese 'westerner', to my understanding the important background to this culturally is that Chinese culture has been traditionally much more legalistic than western culture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalism_(Chinese_philosophy).

It has lots of nuances but the most important difference, if compared to western view of the justice system and the rights of state, is that the most important thing in a legalistic system is to punish those that break the law, and other considerations like individuals right to a fair proceeding and so on, are secondary.

I think this social credit system is the perfect manifestation of the legalistic frame of mind. The system is built so that those that step out of the line are punished.

Western humanistic philosophy is quite new when compared to how chinese state has been ruled for millenias. I'm not saying this to make any value propositions into one direction or the other - just that there is quite a lot of cultural background here that Europeans and anglosaxons might not be aware of.

Re: China blacklists millions from booking flights as 'social credit' introduced

#63

Post by xtian »

bitexploder wrote: post #46
will_brown wrote: post #33

Well here in the US we have an actual credit system in place. And since basic necessities are often dependent on credit rating (employment; housing purchaes ; rentals; vehicle financing/lease) it’s pretty dystopian. Not to mention for nearly 20 years now we have had secret no fly lists (no due process to get on or off) and even secret kill lists (no due process), I think it’s just another way to skin the cat, and may…

I don’t think there is much equivalency here. The credit system is a pain, but it is also very simple to have good credit. Anyone, even someone with little money can have good credit. Even if you have medical debt you can maintain your credit rating. People may not know how to do it, but it isn’t too hard. The privacy aspects of it suck, but it just isn’t that dystopian and it’s usage is relatively narrow in society.…

> Secret kill lists are for terrorits. We don’t kill our own citizens. I’m an Enlightenment since everyone deserves due process, but in a defending our national interests sense, that can never be the case and never has been.

The parts of this that are comprehensible are either baseless or ill-informed assertions.

Re: China blacklists millions from booking flights as 'social credit' introduced

#65

Post by sjg007 »

garyclarke27 wrote: post #3

Horrific predicted tech enabled dystopia now in China. Where next? what if airlines taxis and hotels shared ratings, would the west be so different? I hate Uber Airbnb pestering me for a rating every trip and the fact that I am rated as well. I don’t know or care what my rating is, but my wife does, she was upset recently by an Airbnb landlord in Belgrade, she gave us a bad rating because we had not deep cleaned the…

You should have also reported the apartment as being awful to AirBnB.

Re: China blacklists millions from booking flights as 'social credit' introduced

#66

Post by jmartrican »

I think the biggest problem with this is that citizens that want to speak out about the government will now be more easily blackballed. So now the government can more easily repress a revolution. I suspect this means that the Communist Party of China will most likely remain in power for a lot longer than their natural shelf-life. When this party makes mistakes and misjudgments, what would happen now? The people will not be able to over-throw or speak out. The people will just have to eat the costs and hope the party does not screw up too much. Basically, the Communist Party has removed one of its last checks to power, internal revolt.

Re: China blacklists millions from booking flights as 'social credit' introduced

#67

Post by TangoTrotFox »

ultim8k wrote: post #6

Why do people still live there (apart from those who cannot move)?

You've gotta look at things in perspective. When you live in China what you get is basically 0 crime, a very rapidly developing economy with huge potential for all sorts of entrepreneurship, extremely cheap cost of living with heavy subsidies for costs like utilities, and a generally pretty peaceful and pleasant place. Biggest practical problem is fake or knockoff everything from condoms to eggs. Yip fake eggs are really a thing. What you don't get is a place where it'd be a great idea to speak excessively harshly of pretty much anybody in public, or start trying to protest in ways that would disrupt the normal flow of life.

Generally I think it's a great idea to have a diverse and multi-polar world. I have no idea whether the Chinese system of government is a good idea or an idea that will lead to the implosion of their society. And really I can say the exact same of the current system of government in the United States. By having various nations trialing out radically different systems, we can hope to see which is ultimately more effective by measuring varying sorts of results over time - and then learn and improve from our successes and failures.

Re: China blacklists millions from booking flights as 'social credit' introduced

#68

Post by gnode »

walterbell wrote: post #39
TangoTrotFox wrote: post #16

It's interesting that this seems so futuristic and dystopic yet in reading about the specifics it seems oddly reminiscent to social systems many centuries past. In particular it seems to effect similar results to what exile would have had at one time. But exile lost any meaning as the world become more globalized and connected -- where you physically are no longer really means anything. This system would enable the c…

> similar results to what exile would have had at one time Can people on the list leave the country?

Yes; China no longer has exit visas. You just might not be able to take the most comfortable form of transport.

The travel ban only seems to apply to domestic flights as far as I can tell.

Re: China blacklists millions from booking flights as 'social credit' introduced

#69

Post by [deleted] »

kylnew wrote: post #5

> People are awarded credit points for activities such as undertaking volunteer work and giving blood donations while those who violate traffic laws and charge “under-the-table” fees are punished. > Other infractions reportedly include smoking in non-smoking zones, buying too many video games and posting fake news online. This reminds me a lot of that Black Mirror episode where everyone upvotes and downvotes each oth…

[deleted]
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