How the World's Most Difficult Bouldering Problems Get Made (2015) • Hacker News Board

Re: How the World's Most Difficult Bouldering Problems Get Made (2015)

#61

Post by saiya-jin » Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 9:55 AM UTC

jasonkester wrote: post #58

hailk wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed with tiny holds causing problems. But I presumed it was a grip strength problem, which still doesn't take away from my advantage as a tall-leaner. Though it could also be because I must've not done challenging routes.

It is. But again, with longer fingers you need more strength to produce the same force at the fingertip (because you're applying muscle force to the short end of the lever). Combined with the extra weight from the rest of a longer body, it makes pulling on small holds a lot harder for tall folk. But then we can often simply reach past those small holds to the big jug beyond, so it tends to work itself out.

I can confirm this - as 188cm tall guy, even if I can reach further, the strain i get on my fingers from my relatively heavy body is taking its toll on the fingers. I can't climb few days in a row, would end up with tendinitis.

It doesn't help that I have a 'flexible type' of the body (can bend like crazy, but tendons/ligament injuries across whole body are much more common). And I started with climbing when I was 30, unlike many in their teens who seem to climb much harder without big effort.

If I would be a competitive person, I would be very frustrated with my little climbing progress. But instead I enjoy the constant challenge, the uneasiness of hard routes, the mental push through in cruxes. As they say, life begins where comfort zone ends. Overall, best sport for me for the warm days (rock experience is vastly superior to gym one), and ski touring/alpinism for the cold ones.

Re: How the World's Most Difficult Bouldering Problems Get Made (2015)

#62

Post by adrianN » Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 10:39 AM UTC

justinator wrote: post #14

sixo wrote: post #4

In case anyone isn't already familiar with indoor bouldering, here's a great competition video: https://youtu.be/uHlV_nLLXLc?t=49 Cannot recommend bouldering enough. Problem-solving minds tend to love it.

I'd recommend anyone curious about bouldering get into simply top rope climbing first. Bouldering is HARD which isn't so much the real problem, but it can also be frustrating. Some problem solving strategies like throwing yourself into the problem (metaphorically)can result in nasty injuries and a short bouldering career. Get some easy climbing mileage!

I tried toprope but never really liked it, because heights are scary. You also need experienced people to secure you so you can't easily do it alone. Only once I got into bouldering did I discover that climbing can be fun.

Re: How the World's Most Difficult Bouldering Problems Get Made (2015)

#63

Post by GiuseppaAcciaio » Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 10:39 AM UTC

hailk wrote: post #47

pierrec wrote: post #39

I think this article doesn't really explain what the setters are focusing on here, and it's actually quite interesting. When setting for a bouldering competition, the problems you create must satisfy very precise constraints: namely, create good separation between competitors, but still be entertaining for spectators. Separation is the hard part. In finals you have a handful of competitors doing a handful of problems…

> preferably without depending on height/reach or overly specific strengths. How do you attain this? From an amateur hobbyist eye it seems that bouldering as a sport favours lean + tall builds -> Reach + light-weight advantage. How do you set routes that disadvantage this type?

I'm tall and lean-ish, and my nemesis are those problems where you are compressed in a tight package... Depending on the climber's own physique and technique, the same problem can often be attacked in completely different ways.

Re: How the World's Most Difficult Bouldering Problems Get Made (2015)

#64

Post by GiuseppaAcciaio » Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 10:42 AM UTC

sixo wrote: post #4

In case anyone isn't already familiar with indoor bouldering, here's a great competition video: https://youtu.be/uHlV_nLLXLc?t=49 Cannot recommend bouldering enough. Problem-solving minds tend to love it.

Bouldering is the ultimate exercise form for me: it's physically taxing, and I don't even care because my brain is enjoying the challenge too much! I can't commit to running, cycling or swimming because 30s in, I start to think about all the stuff I could be doing instead; when I'm bouldering, there's nothing else in my mind except for the problem :)

Re: How the World's Most Difficult Bouldering Problems Get Made (2015)

#65

Post by zelos » Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 11:52 AM UTC

Konnstann wrote: post #6

As much as I like the article, the title is flat-out incorrect. The most difficult bouldering problems aren't found inside a gym, they are out in nature. World Cup problems average V10ish, whereas the top climbers project V16 outside.

Sure, although presumably the World Cup problems are made somewhat harder by having to do 4 of them in a row, with 4 minutes to do each one with only a quick look beforehand.

Re: How the World's Most Difficult Bouldering Problems Get Made (2015)

#66

Post by ArrayList » Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 2:21 PM UTC

GiuseppaAcciaio wrote: post #64

sixo wrote: post #4

In case anyone isn't already familiar with indoor bouldering, here's a great competition video: https://youtu.be/uHlV_nLLXLc?t=49 Cannot recommend bouldering enough. Problem-solving minds tend to love it.

Bouldering is the ultimate exercise form for me: it's physically taxing, and I don't even care because my brain is enjoying the challenge too much! I can't commit to running, cycling or swimming because 30s in, I start to think about all the stuff I could be doing instead ; when I'm bouldering, there's nothing else in my mind except for the problem :)

That's a shame, because cycling is absolutely incredible. Running or swimming? Eh, screw those.

Re: How the World's Most Difficult Bouldering Problems Get Made (2015)

#67

Post by scarecrowbob » Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 4:00 PM UTC

Fricken wrote: post #48

scarecrowbob wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it is any consolation, I am 3 months into returning to climbing after a 15 year hiatus.... I feel that this "push harder" thing is a feeling that can be learned. Like, when I am moving at near the limits of what I can do, I've been finding that I can just trust my body to do certain things that I don't think it can do (mostly having to do with pulling on very smooth slopers or feeling my feet doing way more pullin…

Hey, I'm about 6 weeks in after a 10 years hiatus, we're in a similar place. The weird revelation for me was that getting that old strength back is a matter of remembering it, it's memory work. There was this boulder problem I was working on, and I couldn't even stick to the holds, so I used some jugs to ease myself into position, and for the first couple seconds I could barely hang on, but then suddenly it got easie…

TBH, it was so long ago that I totally expected to be starting from scratch. I am guessing that I'm progressing a lot faster than I might have when I was 20.

I think you're right that it's largely mental, though working carefully on my footwork and other technique has helped with some easy gains. Simply getting that idea about how it works helps-- in my day tpo day life, I generally haven't needed to move like I do when climbing.

Even when I was 20 I couldn't pull 5.12. However, I've been able to successfully do harder "5.11" at my gym. I don't think that will translate to rocks... I could be way, way off base, but the 5.10s in my gym feel a lot like I remember the 5.8s I used to climb back in the day.

So I am super curious how this gym work will convert to climbing in the larger world. Ultimately my goal is to be able to do things like the casual route on the diamond, so I am not aiming to do super hard routes, just committed stuff that takes a lot of skills. I just got a rope and some draws, though, so I'll be seeing how the gym translates to actual rock over the next couple of weeks.

Re: How the World's Most Difficult Bouldering Problems Get Made (2015)

#68

Post by justinator » Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 5:26 PM UTC

akvadrako wrote: post #45

justinator wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that the learning curve is much more of a precipice, no? Of all the gym bouldering problems, only a few are rated for absolute beginners - the rest are much harder. Even the V-grade of, "0" is compared roughly to a 5.10 roped climb. In at least my bouldering space, you'll simply run out of things to do, quickly, as a beginner. It may be also where I train, as the gym isn't one specifically geared towar…

I think it's just your gym. I don't know about your grading system but with 2 being walkable, my bouldering gym has about a dozen 3s, a dozen 4s and a couple dozen 5s. Routes are replaced monthly or so.

Wow! That's almost a bit of watering down of the activity!

But again, I'm in a climbing epicenter (Boulder), so I can go outside and find V1's that are nigh impossible for me to do. Problems that have been put up by people like Pat Ament, John Gill - there's still boulder problems put up 40+ years ago that still haven't had a second ascent.

I guess maybe my sentiment is also almost: bouldering should be hard. It's a problem! I would love to see footage of your 3's or 4's - I'm almost in disbelief.

Re: How the World's Most Difficult Bouldering Problems Get Made (2015)

#69

Post by justinator » Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 5:29 PM UTC

adrianN wrote: post #62

justinator wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd recommend anyone curious about bouldering get into simply top rope climbing first. Bouldering is HARD which isn't so much the real problem, but it can also be frustrating. Some problem solving strategies like throwing yourself into the problem (metaphorically)can result in nasty injuries and a short bouldering career. Get some easy climbing mileage!

I tried toprope but never really liked it, because heights are scary. You also need experienced people to secure you so you can't easily do it alone. Only once I got into bouldering did I discover that climbing can be fun.

It's different things to learn I guess. Heights are scary! But I feel it's something of a universal fear, like fire - or the dark. But you're on a rope, right? So there's nothing to be afraid of, and getting psychologically past that is something of a minor miracle, and a way to grow.

Finding a climbing buddy is one way that climbing can be social (there's also gyms set up w/auto belays).

The worst climbing injury I've ever succumbed to was bouldering. Chronic pain in my ankle from a fall. It's a safe enough hobby, but it's not impossible to be injury yourself (being as klutzy as me, helps!)

Getting that mileage, though, on a rope while going over easy terrain is a great way to build up confidence and allow those slow-developing tendons to get stronger, so that you can pull harder bouldering, and not kill yourself (spoken from experience!)

Re: How the World's Most Difficult Bouldering Problems Get Made (2015)

#70

Post by justinator » Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 5:42 PM UTC

hailk wrote: post #52

jasonkester wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bouldering is HARD It's as hard as you want it to be. Here in Fontainebleau, there are bouldering circuits in the forest set for the level of our three year old. (Seriously. Painted with little pink hearts next to the arrows). They get used, too. Even for me, climbing pretty hard these days, I'll often run off and do an easy Blue or even easier Orange circuit just for the joy of movement over 40-80 nice problems, few…

Can we compare difficulty levels with children? They seem to be naturally better at climbing at that age. Faster recovery period and their tendons and ligaments seem to be able to handle their small weights well.

I bet there's a lot of things going on:

* children are smaller, so holds in general are proportionally larger

* children may have a different lower and upper body ratio (they've got shorter legs than adults), making them better suited for climbing.

* Better flexibility/mobility

* don't have to be (re)taught how to play

* perchance better strength/weight ratio

* relatively fearless

* usually can find a enthusiastic peer group that isn't so centered around competition/jealousy (similar to, "knows how to play")

* A lot of kids I see at the gym have parents that have been climbing half their own lives, so they've got incredible coaching from a trusted source, and an amazing cheerleading section. They'll be climbing most of their lives, if they decided to keep it up.

The only real detriment may be that problems in a gym setting aren't always made for their sized bodies, so some of the moves may be a bit reachy. A children's general creativity could allow them to solve such issues though.