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Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

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Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#61

Post by roel_v »

MIKarlsen wrote: post #48
roel_v wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"So if you're done with college/university (which is when you're around 25-30 y/o in Europe)," Uh, what? You're done with university (masters) at 22-23. Late 20's when you include PhD.

Where I'm from (Denmark), most people start university when they're 18-22, and then you have to do a bachelors degree (3 years) and a master degree (2 years). Often times, people spend more time on their degrees because they take extra internships. Based on the 50 people I had a some-what close relation to while I did my degree, most of them where 26-27 when they got their masters degree. You can see a figure from mi…

Why would a sizeable portion of people start at 22? 18-19 plus 4 or 5 (there are plenty of 1-year masters - maybe not in Denmark, but elsewhere in Europe) is 24 at worst.

It's true that 10 or 20 years ago it was normal to spend 6 years on a 4 year study. Times have changed. And if they haven't yet in Denmark, they will in time.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#62

Post by lazerpants »

Alex63 wrote: post #20

Some interesting things in this article. Given what appear to be changing attitudes to men ("long America’s economically privileged gender"), is this situation really surprising? When one considers diversity and inclusion goals, hiring more men seems like a lower priority. I was also amused by the comment, “I’m very quick to get frustrated when people refuse to pay me what I’m worth.” This seems like a conversation I…

You're worth the point on a graph where the line illustrating what the market is willing to offer you intersects with what you're willing to take.

If you think of the housing market as a rough example, a house may have been "worth" 500k in 2006, 350k in 2010, and 525k in 2018, but unless you sold it, the "worth" didn't matter. Likewise, the individuals you are describing are choosing to hold themselves off of the labor market due to the opportunity costs of selling their labor at a cost they consider to be below value. No idea if they're wrong or right about getting a better deal by waiting, but your worth is not market dictated until you accept employment somewhere.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#63

Post by peterburkimsher »

I'm a 29 year old male. I've been trying to get a new job since March, and I've been unemployed since August. I have an MEng in Electronic Systems Engineering, and over 3 years continuous relevant work experience.

I have tried applying through Seek and TradeMe, and got no response. I tried writing custom cover letters and applying on company websites. I've rewritten my résumé several times based on contradictory advice. I updated my LinkedIn, and made a second LinkedIn profile to add strangers. I asked recruiters for help. I put side projects on the web, especially Show HN, to try to get attention. I asked friends who I worked with at Fisher & Paykel Healthcare when I was there before. I found random people on Github and offered to work for free on open-source projects just to get an introduction. I contacted computer repair shops and asked them to put up posters advertising data migration services that I could do with my old Apple II. I've contacted every Apple-certified repair person in NZ/Aus/Can to ask them for help. I've tried praying about it. I've tried spamming the companies that have emails readily available, from the accredited employers list. I posted a desperate plea on Facebook, and followed up on advice (+1 introduction) from friends. None of these methods are working. I've had only two interviews. Most companies don't even send rejections. I've lowered my standards so now I'll accept any kind of job, anywhere.

This is a cry for help. I know I'm doing something totally wrong. I just don't know how to contact companies. Please tell me what to do. Please tell me email addresses of people who care.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#64

Post by divs1210 »

ehrtt wrote: post #45
Alex63 wrote: post #20

Some interesting things in this article. Given what appear to be changing attitudes to men ("long America’s economically privileged gender"), is this situation really surprising? When one considers diversity and inclusion goals, hiring more men seems like a lower priority. I was also amused by the comment, “I’m very quick to get frustrated when people refuse to pay me what I’m worth.” This seems like a conversation I…

> You're worth what the market is willing to offer you, not what you think you are worth. This is an absurd statement, the market is not a god. It does not have a value system.

In a capitalistic society, The Market = God. Ever heard people claiming that The Market will fix things? Where have I heard that before?

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#65

Post by geezerjay »

lawn wrote: post #51
ben_jones wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm looking at a $400 bill after insurance for a 15 minute doctor's visit. Nothing fancy he took my blood pressure and listened to my lungs and sent me on my way. I'm fortunate that I can easily pay this, but what if I was living paycheck to paycheck? It would crush me. When wealth is so fleeting as to be taken away by such a minuscule stroke of bad luck, why would people bother chasing it? I'm literally going to hav…

There surely is a middle ground here between living paycheck to paycheck and not making work the most important thing in your life.

For those that don't have the luxury of having an education combined with training in a relevant skill, that middle ground is just wishful thinking.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#66

Post by irrational »

ams6110 wrote: post #60
panarky wrote: post #42

It's not perplexing at all. People forget that the market for labor is just like other markets. If you're selling a thing and the market price is lower than the thing is worth, then you don't sell it. If the minimum wage kept up with the increase in worker productivity over the last 50 years, today's minimum wage would be about $19.50. So workers who refuse to take dead-end jobs are simply rational economic actors re…

> If employers have job openings they can't fill, while workers are idle because they won't work so cheap, then shouldn't the market-clearing wage increase? If not, what's preventing it? Other workers will work cheap. See, it doesn't matter what you think your time is worth. The supply of people willing to work is what determines what it is worth. Minimum wage jobs can literally be done by almost anyone who is not me…

But, what happens where there are no workers? Everywhere I go there are signs saying help wanted. But, unemployment is practically non-existent where I live. Everyone who wants a job, has a job.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#67

Post by Nasrudith »

Alex63 wrote: post #20

Some interesting things in this article. Given what appear to be changing attitudes to men ("long America’s economically privileged gender"), is this situation really surprising? When one considers diversity and inclusion goals, hiring more men seems like a lower priority. I was also amused by the comment, “I’m very quick to get frustrated when people refuse to pay me what I’m worth.” This seems like a conversation I…

The market is a two way street. If they refuse to pay enough to satisfy them to consider working then they won't get their labor in return.

They may well be able to do without but the supply will adjust accordingly. Look at mining boom towns and their crazy inflation - one could say line cooks aren't worth $35/hr but if they can get a $50/hr mining job the local market will be in a perpetual shortage because they refuse to "overpay".

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#68

Post by typeCoercion »

k__ wrote: post #33
MIKarlsen wrote: post #19

"If you get to the point where you’re turning 30, you’ve never held a real job and you don’t have a college education, then it is very hard to recover at that point." I've raised this point to a fair few of my friends and colleagues recently. I think it is becoming increasingly hard to contribute to society, because everything is so gosh-darn technical. Companies _scream_ for developers - but not junior developers, o…

On the other hand, how many people can you train to become programmers?

I'm a millennial who learned programming and am attempting to switch careers. I can't find a job, and companies largely don't seem to hire junior developers.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#69

Post by geezerjay »

ams6110 wrote: post #60
panarky wrote: post #42

It's not perplexing at all. People forget that the market for labor is just like other markets. If you're selling a thing and the market price is lower than the thing is worth, then you don't sell it. If the minimum wage kept up with the increase in worker productivity over the last 50 years, today's minimum wage would be about $19.50. So workers who refuse to take dead-end jobs are simply rational economic actors re…

> If employers have job openings they can't fill, while workers are idle because they won't work so cheap, then shouldn't the market-clearing wage increase? If not, what's preventing it? Other workers will work cheap. See, it doesn't matter what you think your time is worth. The supply of people willing to work is what determines what it is worth. Minimum wage jobs can literally be done by almost anyone who is not me…

I would add that sometimes having skills and experience isn't enough if they are in fields that for some reason ceased to be in demand.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#70

Post by ravenstine »

geezerjay wrote: post #65
lawn wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There surely is a middle ground here between living paycheck to paycheck and not making work the most important thing in your life.

For those that don't have the luxury of having an education combined with training in a relevant skill, that middle ground is just wishful thinking.

Or minimalism, which is becoming a trendy topic on places like YouTube for that reason.
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