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LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

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Re: LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

#61

Post by coldtea »

First, they should ask:

Is there a prostitution problem? And what is the prostitution problem?

Is it the problem that prostitution is sinful? Then they could perhaps finally come to the 21st century, and the problem is solved by itself.

Is the problem that prostitution is illegal? That's a self imposed problem, they can just change the law (like other countries and some states/counties have).

Is the problem that society has decided it shouldn't have prostitution? That's valid, I guess, but they should ask to verify whether this is true, before considering it a problem (and before making laws unilaterally. E.g. society apparently didn't consider marijuana to be as much of a problem as lawmakers made it).

Is the problem that prostitution is a dangerous and coercive environment? This stems from it being illegal, and thus unregulated.

Re: LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

#62

Post by paulajohnson »

craftyguy wrote: post #23
closeparen wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government is required to respect privacy, not to be stupid. An area's status as a crime hotspot can reasonably cast suspicion on those visiting it late at night.

> The government is required to respect privacy, not to be stupid There's absolutely no requirement to 'respect privacy.'

In Roe vs Wade the Supreme Court found a right to privacy. The fact that this is not in the Bill of Rights is irrelevant, as per the Ninth Amendment.

Re: LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

#63

Post by coldtea »

swampthinker wrote: post #9
mindcrime wrote: post #2

There is no "prostitution problem", other than meddling moralizers who want to tell people what they can do with their own bodies. Legalize prostitution, get the government out of the business of trying to control people's bodies, and the "problem" goes away.

On mobile so I'll having trouble finding a source, but studies have unfortunately found that countries with legalized prostitution generally have higher trafficking rates.

That's because they have labor laws that are easy on exploiting immigration in general.

Re: LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

#64

Post by dotancohen »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #44
JohnTClark wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Streetwalkers do this because they are poor and lack the skill to do something else. Some people simply don't have the skill to do things. I don't know how to say this and not come as a jerk, but regarding the glass ceiling. By the time a women hit the glass ceiling sex work is not an option because they are old and the only sex work available would be streetwalking or low level escorting which dose not pay as much a…

I'm currently poor. I don't lack the skill to do something else. I've been offered money for sex. I've always turned it down. Homeless men with no skills sometimes find day labor jobs. They are much less often offered money or a place to stay in exchange for sex. I used Glass Ceiling as shorthand for removing barriers generally. Given the response here, I don't think it's worth the time and effort to try to "clarify.…

> Homeless men with no skills sometimes find day labor jobs. They are much less often offered money or a place to stay in exchange for sex.

This actually is not true. Some time ago I had opportune to speak with a homeless man about his situation, and his options. It turns out that he is offered money for sex quite often, perhaps daily. By his telling, he has never done it either.

The proposals are from gay men.

Re: LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

#65

Post by tomp »

coldtea wrote: post #61

First, they should ask: Is there a prostitution problem? And what is the prostitution problem? Is it the problem that prostitution is sinful? Then they could perhaps finally come to the 21st century, and the problem is solved by itself. Is the problem that prostitution is illegal? That's a self imposed problem, they can just change the law (like other countries and some states/counties have). Is the problem that soci…

What’s wrong with you, coming here all reasonable and logical?! /s

Re: LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

#66

Post by DoreenMichele »

dotancohen wrote: post #64
DoreenMichele wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm currently poor. I don't lack the skill to do something else. I've been offered money for sex. I've always turned it down. Homeless men with no skills sometimes find day labor jobs. They are much less often offered money or a place to stay in exchange for sex. I used Glass Ceiling as shorthand for removing barriers generally. Given the response here, I don't think it's worth the time and effort to try to "clarify.…

> Homeless men with no skills sometimes find day labor jobs. They are much less often offered money or a place to stay in exchange for sex. This actually is not true. Some time ago I had opportune to speak with a homeless man about his situation, and his options. It turns out that he is offered money for sex quite often, perhaps daily. By his telling, he has never done it either. The proposals are from gay men.

I was on the street with my two adult sons. They each got such an offer once from a much older man. I had a lot more such offers.

There may be the occasional statistical outlier. But, on average, you are going to see homeless women offered money for sex a great deal more often than homeless men.

If you want to rebut that, please cite sources, not anecdata. I've had a class on homelessness and public policy. I spent nearly six years homeless. I still blog about the topic. Your sample of one doesn't remotely convince me that my assertion is inaccurate.

I didn't say it never happens. I said it is much less common.

Re: LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

#67

Post by bvxvbxbxb »

America is doing everything it can to run a Prohibition War on Prostitution by driving it further underground and over-criminalizing poor and vulnerable people (with the other 8 million in prison, more per capita than any other country, save Seychelles, and possibly China with the Uygur concentration camps). The moral panic "war" is lost: regulate and let people live. It works in the UK and Europe. Oh yeah, American porn is somehow legal prostitution with a video camera because it's "art" and "professional." Consistency fail too. Maybe start making lots more "porn" that satisfies legal requirements and then the oldest profession becomes legal.

Re: LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

#68

Post by Claudus »

coldtea wrote: post #61

First, they should ask: Is there a prostitution problem? And what is the prostitution problem? Is it the problem that prostitution is sinful? Then they could perhaps finally come to the 21st century, and the problem is solved by itself. Is the problem that prostitution is illegal? That's a self imposed problem, they can just change the law (like other countries and some states/counties have). Is the problem that soci…

It seems to me, that legalizing prostitution would be at the top of the issues list for feminism.

Most of the arguments made in support of legal abortion could also be made for legal prostitution.

Furthermore, there is a fair amount of research indicating that legal prostitution reduces occurances of rape.

Although I suppose it would increase “liquidity” in the market, and reduce the value of sex to a certain degree.

Re: LA Is Trying to Fix Its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

#69

Post by capobvious »

pgeorgi wrote: post #28
rifung wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here you go: https://orgs.law.harvard.edu/lids/2014/06/12/does-legalized-... "Countries with legalized prostitution are associated with higher human trafficking inflows than countries where prostitution is prohibited. The scale effect of legalizing prostitution, i.e. expansion of the market, outweighs the substitution effect, where legal sex workers are favored over illegal workers. On average, countries with legaliz…

> Is it that the consumers don't know they're illegal Apparently it's a hard problem to solve. Prostitution is legal in Germany, but still far from "accepted" as regular work. There are attempts at having the workers register themselves plus regular check ups (which they're not too keen on, because when the political landscape changes, being part of some database isn't a good thing. Plus, being in a database might ex…

The regular checkup part at least is solvable.

The only way to help victims of trafficking is to offer them help and some sort of amnesty.

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