I find that this applies to non software engineers as well.
When people are in love with their own idea sometimes it is difficult for them to listen and to learn if people really want that.
Sales mistakes that software engineers make
61–70 of 204 posts
Re: Sales mistakes that software engineers make
#62Are there examples of great companies that actually started selling before building the product? From Google to Facebook, all the companies that I've ever researched seems to be based on people fiddling with ideas and then quickly iterate to the direction when they start getting traction. Sure, there are crowdfunding sites or established companies selling based on CGI drawings or concept videos but this seems to be n…
Google and Facebook are moonshots by extremely talented people. I don’t know about you, but I have no close to zero chances of building something similar. It’s wiser to be realistic, find problems businesses have, understand them better than anyone else and try to solve them. EG. some dropshipping platforms don’t have integrations with some e-commerce platforms, interview dropshippers and build the ones they’d need.…
>you added a reference that your thoughts are for B2C. But Facebook and Google are B2B, the Cs are the product
It still holds though, they had the product(the users) first. They did not start as companies that figured out that they need users by first selling ad spaces to companies and talking to them. They had something valuable in hand(usres) and iterated the business models through the years.
Re: Sales mistakes that software engineers make
#63This is a very good post. I am in special agreement with #2 (on listening).
However, #1 for me is not quite right. Selling before building anything may backfire as your prospects could see you as an airhead selling vaporware. "OK, this tech looks useful, but so is anti-gravity. Show me that it is buildable and that your team can build it quickly."
One way to allay such concerns is to have a quick prototype that (on a logarithmic scale) is halfway to the product you are selling. This can say "yes, we do not have a product for you today (because we did not focus on it yet), but we can build it quickly". Would this be something you are interested in? My 2c.
Re: Sales mistakes that software engineers make
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
Google and Facebook are moonshots by extremely talented people. I don’t know about you, but I have no close to zero chances of building something similar. It’s wiser to be realistic, find problems businesses have, understand them better than anyone else and try to solve them. EG. some dropshipping platforms don’t have integrations with some e-commerce platforms, interview dropshippers and build the ones they’d need.…
So, are there any examples of something that started with the selling first building later? Sure, for a small operation that is not particularly innovative you can do that. You can first sell someone a house and later build it but I am not aware of a product that made it big by consulting the potential users without having a product(MVP or even a POC) in hand. Usually, it seems, people start with a product that they…
Oracle to the CIA.
Also I don’t think there is a right way of doing a startup, there’s no guide you can follow or rules. What I’m saying is that addressing real problems and talking with people that have the authority and budget to address them before building something seems like a good way to minimize risk for b2b ventures.
Re: Sales mistakes that software engineers make
#65I guess its obvious now but when I demo'ed/try-to-sale my software projects I would spend 15 min showing "the guy" all the features.. INSTEAD of listing and teasing-out the ONE requirement/problem the guy had and THEN spending 15 min showing him how the software will fix he's one big problem.
Re: Sales mistakes that software engineers make
#66I tried to correct some of these mistakes with my latest venture. In the past, I would build something that I thought was a pervasive problem with a demand, only to learn later that I was wrong. Ideas are worth very little until they are verified in the real world. You can get a lot done by just talking with people. This time, I've spent a lot of time asking people what they thought of the idea, and hashing it out. I…
I was working on something similar this weekend! (Well, kinda) Basically, I had an ugly CSV from my bank and importing it into Excel yielded horrible results. So I wrote a processor with customizable rules that splits values into defined colums. In the end, I had all my payments for past 3 years split into defined categories, added some stats, got rid of useless or empty fields and nicely formatted it.
Excellent! Building tools to automate and solve your own problems is such a satisfying endeavor. Unfortunately, the majority of people lack the skills you have and remain frustrated.
Re: Sales mistakes that software engineers make
#67The first point is often totally wrong. I worked in a place where the sales team sold the product hard before much of it was built and before it was reliable. It turned out to be way harder to build what customers actually wanted than anyone knew ahead of time. Nobody could foresee it. The only way we could have known we were egregiously over-promising in the sales pitches was to just actually start building it first…
I've seen a similar situation play out at a startup and I can see your point. However, I think there's a difference between talking to potential customers about requirements they have vs. promising to deliver a solution for them on the spot.
IMO you don't have to, or rather shouldn't, close the sale when first reaching out to potential customers like this. The goal should be to simply validate the problem statement - if that's done with enough potential customers you should move on to the next part of planning and building the initial implementation.
To your point, new information might still surface at this point, which could lead to the project being dropped. Having not sold (promised a solution) to anyone at this point, the likelihood of unhappy clients is rather low.
All that said, I think calling this initial work "sales" might give the wrong impression here, as I would categorise it more as market research. Whoever is carrying this work out should be very aware of this and not actually close the sale on something they are uncertain can be delivered in a profitable manner.
Re: Sales mistakes that software engineers make
#68I fall into the "Build before talking to customers" trap constantly. Even though I know it's "wrong", it is hard to escape it because of the simple problem of not knowing who to talk to. The article suggests doing a search for potential companies, finding contacts on linkedin, and sending out some emails. But what about experimental technologies or developer tools? I wouldn't expect a lot of success with a slow movin…
>finding contacts on linkedin, and sending out some emails Has that ever worked? I'm not on LinkedIn, yet somehow companies still find my work email and I'm always getting emails from people about how there product is the best thing ever and can we set up a call, or there is a webinar, or can they come by. Oh, and did I not see their previous attempts to reach me? Yes, I saw them, but I've never responded to any of t…
Yeah, this.
Re: Sales mistakes that software engineers make
#69I fall into the "Build before talking to customers" trap constantly. Even though I know it's "wrong", it is hard to escape it because of the simple problem of not knowing who to talk to. The article suggests doing a search for potential companies, finding contacts on linkedin, and sending out some emails. But what about experimental technologies or developer tools? I wouldn't expect a lot of success with a slow movin…
>I fall into the "Build before talking to customers" trap constantly. Even though I know it's "wrong", it is hard to escape it because of the simple problem of not knowing who to talk to.
There isnt necessarily a 'right way' to do things.
I have received terrible advice from marketing/business people. Showing people my MVP was fine for some customers, but others didnt trust me based on a low quality landing page.
While I wanted to make everything perfect and add a feature before presenting it, I was pressured into showing people.
What I thought they'd say, they said. What I thought they wanted, they wanted.
3 years later, things are fine. I worry I created some skeptics that spread negativity(which I've seen).
There is something to be said about building your vision.
As a note/recommendation, don't be absolute in either. Ask for feedback from friends along the way.
Re: Sales mistakes that software engineers make
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
So, are there any examples of something that started with the selling first building later? Sure, for a small operation that is not particularly innovative you can do that. You can first sell someone a house and later build it but I am not aware of a product that made it big by consulting the potential users without having a product(MVP or even a POC) in hand. Usually, it seems, people start with a product that they…
Oracle to the CIA. Also I don’t think there is a right way of doing a startup, there’s no guide you can follow or rules. What I’m saying is that addressing real problems and talking with people that have the authority and budget to address them before building something seems like a good way to minimize risk for b2b ventures.
>Oracle to the CIA.
I was unable to confirm it.
Anyway the advice of sell first build later and talk to customers sound very smart, it's just that it I don't see much of success stories based on that process.
On the other hand, build something basic, put it in front of the people, measure and iterate based on the measurements have so many examples. Like pretty much everything out there.
So yes, the stuff on the article sound smart but is it?