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A Dark Consensus About Screens and Kids Begins to Emerge in Silicon Valley

nytimes.com

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Re: A Dark Consensus About Screens and Kids Begins to Emerge in Silicon Valley

#61

Post by nyghtly »

Here's some low hanging fruit to get us started:

1. Ban gambling in games. That is, if real money is involved in the transaction, then there should be no element of chance involved. If not that, at least properly enforce gambling laws to games given that gambling is illegal for children anyways.

2. Decouple real money from in-game money. If you can buy something for real money, you should not be able to acquire it with in game money. If you can acquire something in game, you should not be able to buy it with real money instead.

Problem is, policy makers are clueless when it comes to games. These policies have no chance of passing anytime soon.

Re: A Dark Consensus About Screens and Kids Begins to Emerge in Silicon Valley

#62

Post by gbear605 »

danesparza wrote: post #60
kartan wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are specifically designed to function like a slot machine. I work in the gambling industry, making literally slot machines. Slot machines are heavily regulated and there is a lot of "engagement" tricks that can not be used in the gambling industry. The kind of trick that Candy Crush will use. The dangerous side of gambling is for people that think that they can "win money". But the games themselves are kind of…

You've gotten me wondering: Why AREN'T certain games subject to the same regulations as slot machines? Is that a state-by-state regulation? A federal regulation? And does the regulating code specifically mention physical machines? Thanks in advance for satisfying my curiosity.

I’m not entirely up to date, but my impression was that as long as the rewards are not redeemable for cash, it’s fine.

Re: A Dark Consensus About Screens and Kids Begins to Emerge in Silicon Valley

#63

Post by bamboozled »

wlesieutre wrote: post #47
BoiledCabbage wrote: post #21

>Technologists building these products and writers observing the tech revolution were naïve, he said. >"We thought we could control it,” Mr. Anderson said. “And this is beyond our power to control. This is going straight to the pleasure centers of the developing brain. This is beyond our capacity as regular parents to understand." A 6 year old's brain has no chance against a team of trained data scientists. We all kn…

I see this playing out right now with Apple's phones, which get continuously bigger and shinier and brighter with every new generation. Then they give us "Screen Time" and Tim Cook talks about giving people the tools to be aware of how much they're using their phones and to make their own decisions about it. If drug companies said "We're discontinuing Advil for your headaches and replacing all painkillers with small…

I think you’re being an alarmist.

My iPhone adds incredible value to my life and I find screen time very useful in helping me control my own urges to over consume enjoyable content. I don’t think people at Apple are intentionally selling you cigarettes or opiate like products.

If parents can’t understsnd spending too much time on phones or infront of TV is potentially harmful then it’s common sense we’ve lost. Nothing else.

Take it easy.

Re: A Dark Consensus About Screens and Kids Begins to Emerge in Silicon Valley

#64

Post by borkt »

I'd have to say whatever the waldorf schools are doing is working. My father-in-law's neighbor is an education PhD and her son has been in waldorf schools from the start. He is the most intelligent, wise, and confident kid I have possibly ever met, and he takes care of a wide range of animals at home (horses, chickens, alpaca, pig). He always seems fulfilled and is always excited to talk about what he is learning in school.

His mom who was previously writing and editing textbooks took a job at a public school in a lower income area of the county. She couldn't stay for even a year as she was so upset and dissapointed with the methodology they were using, heavily relying on screens and allowing kids to get away with everything.

I know that I will definitely do everything I can if I have children to get them into the same school.

Re: A Dark Consensus About Screens and Kids Begins to Emerge in Silicon Valley

#65

Post by ben_w »

holstvoogd wrote: post #8
trynumber9 wrote: post #3

> There is a looming issue Ms. Stecher sees in the future: Her husband, who is 39, loves video games and thinks they can be educational and entertaining. She does not. I'm still peeved so many people hate video games categorically. Age of Empires & Civilization got me into history as a kid and I checked out dozens of books as a result. Plus, the reason I ended up wanting to learn more about computers was to make game…

yeah, there are definitely 'good' games, there used to be more. However, most games these days are also just digital crack. I guess it might be hard to understand that difference if you've never experienced things like AoE へ‿(ツ)‿ㄏ I think the problem is not screens or technology, it is, as with so many things, greed and the 'marketing' tactics that it breeds.

I used to know a guy who was asked to explain himself when he referred to his game dev job as “selling crack to kids”. That was just over a decade ago, before the Cow Clicker clones got going.

Re: A Dark Consensus About Screens and Kids Begins to Emerge in Silicon Valley

#66

Post by shanemlk »

I feel like a contrarian. After deleting twitter and facebook last week, I'm jumping off this smart phone train this week. A factory defect emerged in my smart phone, so I purchased a LTE flip phone. I decided I'm not going back to the smart phone. I know I'm not the average case, but I don't think quitting a smart phone has that much of an impact on the functional aspects of life.

Re: A Dark Consensus About Screens and Kids Begins to Emerge in Silicon Valley

#67

Post by tw1010 »

criley2 wrote: post #38
tw1010 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to feel just like you. Now that I've escaped from video game addiction though, I'd totally admit the reason I felt that way was either due to implicit peer pressure from fellow nerds, or from lying to myself that there was some underlying cause for why I spent so much time in front of the screen (e.g. loneliness, shyness) which could have been addressed in much healthier ways.

I guess as a former addict you have to do things like categorically dislike all video games just to maintain your sobriety. Good on you for doing what you have to do to overcome your addiction, but such black and white opinions are not really healthy or smart for people who aren't struggling against a disease, IMO

I still play sometimes, so I get periodic reminders how it used to feel. (I don't dislike it. It's great fun in moderation.) But the things I spend my time on today are things I wouldn't had done when I was younger (be social with friends I like that aren't toxic, exersize, read, travel), but not because I didn't want to, but because I thought I couldn't (because I was too shy, or didn't have friends with compatible interests). I'm pretty sure past-me would've been way happier doing what I spend my life on now than what he did back then (if he'd only get through the initial no-fun investment hump to actually get the non-toxic friends, or past the point where exersize goes from annoying and exhausting to energizing and fulfilling).

But because I didn't feel like the life I'm living now was within reach back then, I lied to myself about the benefits of video games (so people wouldn't bother me or I felt better about spending my time in that way). That's my takeaway from introspecting on the parents and mine similar sounding scenarios.

Re: A Dark Consensus About Screens and Kids Begins to Emerge in Silicon Valley

#68

Post by manux »

dak1 wrote: post #43

I have a 2 and a half year old son now. My wife and I have found for us that the right answer is simply moderation, variety, and supervision. 1. We moderate how much time is spent on screens. Each day he probably spends a total of an hour or less in front of any screen (iPad/iPhone/Projector). 2. He does watch some (highly filtered) educational YouTube content, but we also make sure he's playing educational and inter…

> I fear a child who hasn't learned to cope with technology for 13 years and is then suddenly introduced to it will struggle far more.

This is also one of my bigger fears. There is a strange mix of people in my generation (born 1990's), who are non-techies, and are either responsible with their internet use or display worrying signs of unhealthy internet presence. Even though tech has been around for some time now.

Some, I realised, were introduced to technology rather late. A fun example is how some people would be offended if I were to call them "gamers". They don't own PC games, don't own a console, but they spend their entire commutes and more playing mobile games.

Re: A Dark Consensus About Screens and Kids Begins to Emerge in Silicon Valley

#69

Post by antidesitter »

BoiledCabbage wrote: post #40
trynumber9 wrote: post #3

> There is a looming issue Ms. Stecher sees in the future: Her husband, who is 39, loves video games and thinks they can be educational and entertaining. She does not. I'm still peeved so many people hate video games categorically. Age of Empires & Civilization got me into history as a kid and I checked out dozens of books as a result. Plus, the reason I ended up wanting to learn more about computers was to make game…

> I'm still peeved so many people hate video games categorically. I'm more annoyed that everytime video games come up, someone brings up Civilization as a strawman to argue. 99% of games aren't Civilization. We all know people are talking about that 99%. The article even calls out that the parents make exceptions for some educational games/screen time. And yet rather than legitimately engage and address peoples conce…

> I'm more annoyed that everytime video games come up, someone brings up Civilization as a strawman to argue.

> 99% of games aren't Civilization. We all know people are talking about that 99%. The article even calls out that the parents make exceptions for some educational games/screen time. And yet rather than legitimately engage and address peoples concerns about video games, it's always the same argument of: raise the benefits of Civilization, share nostalgia about playing it in the past and ignore the actual arguments being presented.

> This thread is no exception. This is a place of more intelligent discourse - address the opposition's points, or concede they are valid.

If you had carefully read the comment you’re replying to, you'd have noticed the GP is addressing the claim “video games can be educational”. Not “most video games are educational”, but “video games can be educational”, which Ms. Stecher seems to be denying. Thus it makes perfect sense for the GP to present an example.

So before hypocritically accusing others of “strawmanning”, “unintelligent discourse”, and “ignoring the actual arguments being presented”, please take the time to read what people are actually saying.

And while 99% of games aren’t Civilization, I’d need a citation for the claim that 99% of games aren’t educational, if that’s what you meant to imply.

Re: A Dark Consensus About Screens and Kids Begins to Emerge in Silicon Valley

#70

Post by leonroy »

keeptrying wrote: post #35

Anyone care to share their Screen Time stats from IOS12?

2 hours per day and 66 pickups. I feel I've been curbing my usage a lot since Screen Time got added to the iPad/iPhone. Mainly Slack, Messages, Feedly and Safari.
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