Ban organophosphate pesticides to protect children's health, experts say • Hacker News Board

Re: Ban organophosphate pesticides to protect children's health, experts say

#61

Post by tomp » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 6:27 PM UTC

slacka wrote: post #23

tomp wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does it work in practice though? Monsanto's RoundUp hasn't been getting rave reviews lately ...

Why are you conflating RoundUp (NOT even a pesticide) with all GMOs? Attacking GMO technology because of one company's misuse is like attacking electricity because of the electric chair. We're talking about replacing pesticides. Monsanto is in the business of selling herbicides and pesticides, so of course they're not going to use the tech to neuter their profits. If anything they are benefiting from the negative pre…

I'm not conflating. I'm providing an example of a GMO that's still requires a pesticide. I'd like a counterexample of a GMO that actually REDUCES/ELIMINATES pesticide usage, as the parent claimed that GMOs do.

In theory, GMOs don't need pesticides. I'm asking about practice. Most other comments support my skepticism.

Re: Ban organophosphate pesticides to protect children's health, experts say

#62

Post by Amygaz » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 6:30 PM UTC

maxxxxx wrote: post #52

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other people appear to be down-voting you, so I'll comment instead: The standard defense is that the mercury is locked in place inside the amalgam, and does not migrate. I've never looked at the evidence either way.

I remember in Germany there were lots of studies that showed mercury leaking out. Dentists fought for quite a while but I don't think they are in use anymore. I got my amalgam fillings taken out in the 90s and replaced with plastic and ceramic.

They also observed that we pee pretty much all the mercury we ingest, but that methyl-mercury is the one we absorb, accumulate, and that is highly toxic.

Re: Ban organophosphate pesticides to protect children's health, experts say

#63

Post by refurb » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 6:32 PM UTC

chabes wrote: post #39

dragontamer wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Organic" Farmers aren't very well defined unfortunately. They do use pesticides, but "organic" ones. The overriding pattern is that "Organic" farmers use stuff that is all natural. (for some... fuzzy... definition of all natural) But we all know that Rattlesnake venom is 100% organic and all natural. So I'm personally not sure if the distinction between "synthetic" and "organic" is very appropriate. Nature can certa…

Organic farmers don’t use organophosphates There is a big difference between organic and conventional pesticides.

They are different, but not necessarily less toxic to the environment.

Rotenone is a powerful insecticide that was used to control insects (LD50: 132 mg/kg). Despite the high toxicity of Rotenone to aquatic life and some links to Parkinson disease the compound is still allowed in organic farming as it is a naturally occurring compound

Re: Ban organophosphate pesticides to protect children's health, experts say

#64

Post by zzzeek » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 6:41 PM UTC

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #29

dragontamer wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, its sorta why GMOs exist. To reduce the need of pesticides that are sprayed on farms. I've always considered GMOs to be the lesser evil when compared to standard pesticide usage. Not all produce have a insect-resistant type however. So pesticides are still needed to protect certain plants.

No, mainstream popular production GMOs have precisely the opposite purpose. They're there to be be selectively resistant to bucketloads of herbicides while everything around them dies. Living next door to this and trying to grow things that aren't corn or soy is "fun", let me tell you.

it's almost like someone at Monsanto thought this approach might allow them to sell 5000 times more chemicals too. pretty lucky cooincidence they got there after all that science happened to show them that this is the most effective approach to solve world hunger (how is that going btw?)

Re: Ban organophosphate pesticides to protect children's health, experts say

#65

Post by Amygaz » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 6:42 PM UTC

leptoniscool wrote: post #45

Since this is a nerve disrupting chemical, could this lead to higher rates of alzheimer's and dementia? Any studies that looks at the correlation?

The strongest association with AD and PD is obesity. Now, in itself obesity is often the results of lifestyle habits. So, is one of those habits the culprit? Or is does more body fat leads to more bio-accumulated toxins?

Re: Ban organophosphate pesticides to protect children's health, experts say

#66

Post by 14 » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 6:43 PM UTC

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #40

vixen99 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or in 2050, wondering why in 2018, mercury amalgam (Hg is an established neurotoxin) was still in significant use (except in Norway, Sweden and Denmark) as a dental filler.

Other people appear to be down-voting you, so I'll comment instead: The standard defense is that the mercury is locked in place inside the amalgam, and does not migrate. I've never looked at the evidence either way.

As a person who has struggled to afford dental care over other life expenses I would strongly believe that the Mercury only stays in place in optimal conditions. I had a chipped tooth which I didn't treat right away which lead to the tooth decaying. Then it cracked in half. There was a filling that was split in half during this. It was a month later before I could afford work on the tooth. I don't know if that filling had Mercury or not but if it did, my mouth was definitely exposed to it.

Re: Ban organophosphate pesticides to protect children's health, experts say

#67

Post by chabes » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 6:45 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #63

chabes wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Organic farmers don’t use organophosphates There is a big difference between organic and conventional pesticides.

They are different, but not necessarily less toxic to the environment. Rotenone is a powerful insecticide that was used to control insects (LD50: 132 mg/kg). Despite the high toxicity of Rotenone to aquatic life and some links to Parkinson disease the compound is still allowed in organic farming as it is a naturally occurring compound

Yes, there are things allowed in certified organic agriculture that are poisonous and harmful. That’s a whole separate discussion. I could go on forever about the organic program here in the US, and the standards board being a small group of individuals that mostly represent big-ag at this point (more than half of the board members), and all of the exceptions and rule changes they’ve made to the program.

My point was that organic farmers don’t use organophosphates, which was a response to “Organophosphates are like the primary insecticide used worldwide. How do you replace it? I don't see anywhere where they propose an alternative.”

Re: Ban organophosphate pesticides to protect children's health, experts say

#68

Post by amelius » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 6:51 PM UTC

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #40

vixen99 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or in 2050, wondering why in 2018, mercury amalgam (Hg is an established neurotoxin) was still in significant use (except in Norway, Sweden and Denmark) as a dental filler.

Other people appear to be down-voting you, so I'll comment instead: The standard defense is that the mercury is locked in place inside the amalgam, and does not migrate. I've never looked at the evidence either way.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3010024/

Quoting:

> The debate over the safety and efficacy of amalgam has raged since time immemorial. In recent times, it has reached such a feverish pitch that it seems to drown out all sounds of reason. Amalgam has served the dental profession for more than 165 years. Incidents of true allergy to mercury have been rare and attempts to link its usage with diseases like multiple sclerosis and Alzheimer’s disease have not been significantly proven, although there may be some association between amalgam restorations and oral lichenoid lesions.

> Marshall, in his review on dental amalgam, summed it up appropriately: “if some reported values of Hg release are extrapolated to clinical life times, the entire restoration could lose its Hg in short time. For example, a 500 mg amalgam restoration contains approximately 200–250 mg of Hg, and the entire quantity of Hg would be lost in 10,000 days if the Hg was released at the rate of 25 ?g/day. This estimate of release is of the order of magnitude reported in some studies of vapour release”.

Re: Ban organophosphate pesticides to protect children's health, experts say

#69

Post by RankingMember » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 6:53 PM UTC

projektfu wrote: post #58

gwbas1c wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I upvoted... Because I hope this was a joke with tounge planted firmly in cheek.

Perhaps the children could feed off the insects they pick from the plants. /s

Maybe we could train the insects to raise the children for us too!

Re: Ban organophosphate pesticides to protect children's health, experts say

#70

Post by scotty79 » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 7:14 PM UTC

> However, 200,000 people still die each year from pesticide poisonings, according to UN estimates, about 99% of them in the developing world. A further 110,000 suicides using pesticides take place each year.

So roughly 35% of deaths from pesticides are suicides.

On the other hand in 2012, 64% of all gun-related deaths in the U.S. were suicides.

I wonder if you could get from that some kind of safety estimate, of how easy it is to die from a thing accidentally in realtion of how easy it is to die intentionally.... Probably not.