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Sway: i3-compatible Wayland compositor – 1.0-beta.1 released

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Re: Sway: i3-compatible Wayland compositor – 1.0-beta.1 released

#61

Post by Cacti »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #58
Cacti wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Please use nouveau and consider future purchases from GPU vendors that support open source. Other proprietary drivers are also unsupported." Uh... how about I just not use your software? I'm not going to replace a couple thousand dollars in GPUs, or even buy a new specific GPU just so I can use your software.

It's a legit option. Unfortunately everyone involved seems unwilling to compromise on this one so you're forced to choose.

Which is fine, it's not like the developers of sway owe me anything. My point is just that if your goal is to increase the adoption rate of your software that you're pouring so much time into, and you want that software to be successful, this is exactly the opposite way to do it.

Re: Sway: i3-compatible Wayland compositor – 1.0-beta.1 released

#62

Post by franga2000 »

auanfaz wrote: post #57
vectorEQ wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i think you will be happy to hear since 2014 they can alterr the clock speeds and get out of the boot frquency of the cards which gives them somewhat normal performance. there is a bit of an issue still to reverse features implemented on the cards. this is a daunting task. these features make some functions in games or renderers run much smoother than directly rendering them or using non-specific resources for them ,…

>patents and other things will still protect their IP / featuresets even if they open it.... That's not how it works. Even if you patent something others can copy it (and I don't mean just the source, but the idea, algorithm, implementation) and use it in their products and then you're left with the work of completely reverse engineer them, figure it all out, then sue them, etc. So you can either do that or just neve…

> and then you're left with the work of completely reverse engineer them, figure it all out, then sue them, etc. That isn't that difficult if your competitors also make their drivers open source. There is no doubt in my mind, that nvidia already has a team looking at every commit AMD and Intel make to their Linux drivers. If one of them started using their IP, nvidia would know.

Re: Sway: i3-compatible Wayland compositor – 1.0-beta.1 released

#64

Post by auanfaz »

franga2000 wrote: post #62
auanfaz wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>patents and other things will still protect their IP / featuresets even if they open it.... That's not how it works. Even if you patent something others can copy it (and I don't mean just the source, but the idea, algorithm, implementation) and use it in their products and then you're left with the work of completely reverse engineer them, figure it all out, then sue them, etc. So you can either do that or just neve…

> and then you're left with the work of completely reverse engineer them, figure it all out, then sue them, etc. That isn't that difficult if your competitors also make their drivers open source. There is no doubt in my mind, that nvidia already has a team looking at every commit AMD and Intel make to their Linux drivers. If one of them started using their IP, nvidia would know.

The performance of the AMD drivers on Linux is much lower than on Windows, so it goes without saying that the spicy parts are still closed source.

Re: Sway: i3-compatible Wayland compositor – 1.0-beta.1 released

#65

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

Cacti wrote: post #61
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a legit option. Unfortunately everyone involved seems unwilling to compromise on this one so you're forced to choose.

Which is fine, it's not like the developers of sway owe me anything. My point is just that if your goal is to increase the adoption rate of your software that you're pouring so much time into, and you want that software to be successful, this is exactly the opposite way to do it.

I don't know much about Sir_Cmpwn, but my impression is that his ideological desires outweigh any desire he may or may not have for higher adoption.

Re: Sway: i3-compatible Wayland compositor – 1.0-beta.1 released

#66

Post by franga2000 »

Filligree wrote: post #51
arghwhat wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your pick. Nvidia are assholes, though, and should not be supported directly at any cost. They need to learn to grow up. Also, what the hell are you using a couple thousand dollars in consumer nVidia GPUs for on a Linux system?

Machine learning, probably. Nvidia is still the best option for that.

In that case, you don't really need graphics at all. It's perfectly possible to use a card with good drivers for your displays (even the Intel IGPUs are good enough for that) and do your machine learning with the nvidia GPU and whatever blob they provide.

Re: Sway: i3-compatible Wayland compositor – 1.0-beta.1 released

#67

Post by simion314 »

vectorEQ wrote: post #40
Majestic121 wrote: post #3

"Experimental Nvidia support has been deprecated since its inception, and has now been removed entirely. Please use nouveau and consider future purchases from GPU vendors that support open source. Other proprietary drivers are also unsupported." How is nouveau doing this days compared to the proprietary drivers of NVidia ?

i think you will be happy to hear since 2014 they can alterr the clock speeds and get out of the boot frquency of the cards which gives them somewhat normal performance. there is a bit of an issue still to reverse features implemented on the cards. this is a daunting task. these features make some functions in games or renderers run much smoother than directly rendering them or using non-specific resources for them ,…

Other reason I believe(no proof) NVIDIA is not publishing specifications or open sourcing the driver is related with FreeSync an open protocol for monitors, NVIDIA does not support it because they have an expensive proprietary version (compatible monitors can will be more expensive) though I read recently that someone managed to trick the NVIDIA driver to work with FreeSync on some hardware.

Re: Sway: i3-compatible Wayland compositor – 1.0-beta.1 released

#68

Post by Sir_Cmpwn »

jcelerier wrote: post #60
Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can take screenshots and use secondary monitors on sway, I use four displays at home, including one rotated 90 degrees and one 4K display, to make sure I test each use-case before anything breaks for end-users. The performance of the novueau driver is adequate for most non-gaming workstations.

> You can take screenshots can you, with any app that takes screenshots ? e.g. with SimpleScreenRecorder or flameshot ?

No, they will require patches to support Wayland. But we have created portable protocols which will allow you to take screenshots on 10+ Wayland compositors and are on track for standardization. Third-party screenshot clients already exist, like grim:

https://wayland.emersion.fr/grim/

Re: Sway: i3-compatible Wayland compositor – 1.0-beta.1 released

#69

Post by Cacti »

franga2000 wrote: post #66
Filligree wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Machine learning, probably. Nvidia is still the best option for that.

In that case, you don't really need graphics at all. It's perfectly possible to use a card with good drivers for your displays (even the Intel IGPUs are good enough for that) and do your machine learning with the nvidia GPU and whatever blob they provide.

I don't have integrated graphics on these machines, and there is no room for additional cards, and if there was, I would either be putting in another NVIDIA card, or RAID, or 10Gb or the many other things that will actually improve our use of these machines. Also, these are company/org machines, I can't just go putting random ass hardware in them because someone wants to use a window manager.

What you're suggesting may be fine for casual desktop users at home, but in many cases it's simply not possible.

Re: Sway: i3-compatible Wayland compositor – 1.0-beta.1 released

#70

Post by robin_reala »

Cacti wrote: post #48
robin_reala wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you get a cheap Radeon as a display card?

Why would anyone go out, buy a new Radeon, install it in their computers (assuming there is room, which in ML cases is not always true), and reconfigure any drivers and all the other hassle, just to use a window manager? That's assuming such a thing is even possible (e.g. work restrictions).

Because they “would love to move from i3 to sway”? The cheapest passive Radeon is less than $50 on Newegg and I’m sure a lot cheaper second-hand, and $50 doesn’t seem like much to spend on something one would love to do.
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