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When Sears Flourished, So Did Workers. At Amazon, It’s More Complicated

nytimes.com

61–70 of 149 posts

Re: When Sears Flourished, So Did Workers. At Amazon, It’s More Complicated

#61
post #6

An interesting exercise in what Bezos could do about this if he wanted to: https://direkris.itch.io/you-are-jeff-bezos HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18276937

Stock money is not as liquid as you think it is.

It's not that he is Scrooge McDuck and all his money is in cash.

Re: When Sears Flourished, So Did Workers. At Amazon, It’s More Complicated

#62

Sears' huge pension liabilities was cited as one of the main reasons that prevented any possible re-structuring that could have saved the company when it was declining and heading to bankruptcy... I mean, let's be realistic here. For how long was Sears in this pitiful state?... Getting all that real estate + semi-established brand was a private equity's wet dream, yet nobody ever contemplated that option. And now tha…

I don’t necessarily disagree with many of your points, but I think drawing attention to the end of Sears’ lifecycle is an unfair thing. Someday Amazon too will have an end of life, and employees and shareholders will get fucked over then too. The article also draws attention to how workers benefited _in good times_ at Sears, not near the end. And this is where the comparison is most meaningful, where Amazon is more q…

> in good times

Unfunded pension liabilities is how you have good times now and wreck the future.

Re: When Sears Flourished, So Did Workers. At Amazon, It’s More Complicated

#63
post #19

Yeah I remember Bernie Sanders praised Amazon's decision in a tweet, but only later did people and the media realize that increasing the minimum wage came at a cost to other things, such as stock compensation. no free lunch guys.

Amazon realized that they kept getting a black eye because of their wages so of course they pivoted. Now some workers are probably worse off. I blame the media for only caring about sensationalist headlines.

Our local communist Seattle City Councilmember Kshama Sawant loves to excoriate Amazon with her bullhorn. She gets a lot of press for it.

Re: When Sears Flourished, So Did Workers. At Amazon, It’s More Complicated

#64

Sears' huge pension liabilities was cited as one of the main reasons that prevented any possible re-structuring that could have saved the company when it was declining and heading to bankruptcy... I mean, let's be realistic here. For how long was Sears in this pitiful state?... Getting all that real estate + semi-established brand was a private equity's wet dream, yet nobody ever contemplated that option. And now tha…

> Wanna increase salaries and stock grants? Sure, do it. Two quarters later Wall Street will fuck you up because your new shiny compensation model just shaved the company revenue. ... So that 5% of lost revenue is going to cost you 20% or 30% of market value, and now all those stock grants are 30% less valuable. So your great initiative just put you in a negative spiral.

This basically, is what people mean when they say "fuck the system". It's not about some particular greedy bosses or managers or even shareholders. It's that the whole economy is apparently now structured in a way that businesses don't seem to have a choice. (Or at least the managers believe they don't have a choice).

Re: When Sears Flourished, So Did Workers. At Amazon, It’s More Complicated

#65

Yeah I remember Bernie Sanders praised Amazon's decision in a tweet, but only later did people and the media realize that increasing the minimum wage came at a cost to other things, such as stock compensation. no free lunch guys.

>no free lunch guys.

Nobody asked for a "free lunch", those people already work very hard for what they get.

So, it's not much "no free lunch", but "I'll do a token gesture of giving you more while taking your money from elsewhere, because I'm a hypocrite greedy bastard".

Re: When Sears Flourished, So Did Workers. At Amazon, It’s More Complicated

#66

Why does NYT have it out for Amazon? Is it because Mr Bezos owns a rival paper?

I don’t know that the NYT has it out for Bezos, but he’s a very easy target. He has a long reputation of treating employees badly while amassing enormous wealth.

Seattle is full of multi-millionaire ex-Amazon workers.

Re: When Sears Flourished, So Did Workers. At Amazon, It’s More Complicated

#67

I joined Amazon as an SDE 1 in early 2015. I was promoted to an SDE 2 in q4 2016. I just was promoted this year to SDE 3. Hard work, navigating to the right projects, and managing both upwards and down... senior and junior people on my part... I feel a bit ripped off. I'm not sure I would have wanted to get promoted knowing where my comp now falls. The thing I'm unhappy about is that my target comp isn't actually tha…

Generally, every American who makes less money than they deserve, has two choices:

(1) Find a way to make more money.

(2) Appeal to the sense of fairness to get sympathy from the community.

Sadly, according to US federal law (4 U.S.C. §§ 888), anyone who earned a total compensation in excess of 7 times national average individual median income, loses the right to option (2). Any attempt to exercise it will result in penalties such as heavy downvoting and ridicule on social media.

If not for these harsh legal restrictions, I would have offered you my very sincere sympathy and words of support.

The good news is that with your fast career progression at Amazon, and willingness to work hard, you will likely significantly increase your compensation when you enter the job market again.

Re: When Sears Flourished, So Did Workers. At Amazon, It’s More Complicated

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know that the NYT has it out for Bezos, but he’s a very easy target. He has a long reputation of treating employees badly while amassing enormous wealth.

Seattle is full of multi-millionaire ex-Amazon workers.

probably not warehouse workers then

Re: When Sears Flourished, So Did Workers. At Amazon, It’s More Complicated

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know that the NYT has it out for Bezos, but he’s a very easy target. He has a long reputation of treating employees badly while amassing enormous wealth.

Yes, it's just this simple. I don't know why more people can't understand how basic this is.

The better question is - why are so many in such a hurry to defend billionaires?

Re: When Sears Flourished, So Did Workers. At Amazon, It’s More Complicated

#70
post #51
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be really nice if EVERYONE not in the 1% got a raise of some sort. An extra 1-2 an hour or whatever... However then the prices of everything would go up for everyone, just like they are everywhere. When the 'living wage' 15 USD/whatever minimums are passed don't the prices of everyday living just rise to meet that extra cash in the market? Meanwhile everyone who was previously making a little above minimum w…

Which is why I'm in favour of a profit sharing scheme. You get rewarded the productivity of your work.

> Which is why I'm in favour of a profit sharing scheme.

But... but that's socialism! /s

Such corporation types exist - in Germany they're called "Genossenschaften". They're very limited in actual usage, though.

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