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How the Finnish survive without small talk

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Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#61

Post by vidarh »

buboard wrote: post #8

[flagged]

The "love of socialism" in the Nordic countries is not particularly old. Germany got a welfare system long before Norway for example, then motivated by mix of fear of the Marxists and Christian morality (Bismarck pushed it through with the support of Zentrum; one of the forerunners of todays CDU).

What happened in Scandinavia was not that Scandinavians were all that much more socialist than the rest of Europe, but that the workers movements happened to be more successful to the point of obtaining a political hegemony in the post-war years that allowed them to shape the system to a much greater degree, and the conflict level was much lower.

A large part of this was in response to religion. In particularly the role of strong Lutheran state churches that looked down on ostentantious displays of wealth and promoted community and sharing, which made it easier for the Christian parts of the right to find together with the labour movement on welfare issues. As a result the first comprehensive welfare bill in Norway, as in many European countries, was pushed through with the votes of the Christian Democrats.

In Norway at least a lot of this "love of socialism" is much less a "love of socialism" than it is a mix of that tradition of community and a strong but relatively moderate labour movement.

But it is also pretty recent - up until the 60's for example, Norwegian prisons were very harsh and following very much an idea of dealing with "tough love" for sinners that needed to be purged. Social and criminal reforms didn't really start happening at pace until the 60's and 70's, and were a constant issue of tension with religious values.

I think it's more that you've touched on a similar foundation: In Norway at least I think you'll find that quiet nature very much matches what used to be seen as how a good Christian would behave. Too much excitement would not do.

[you probably got flagged because HN is very sensitive to dragging politics into subjects that aren't inherently political]

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#62

Post by seba_dos1 »

jacquesm wrote: post #20
dudul wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just the Swedes, the same saying exists in France.

And Dutch: Spreken is zilver, zwijgen is goud. German: Reden ist Silber, Schweigen ist Gold. And probably many other languages besides. Proverbs are usually not limited to a single language though they may change subtly in translation.

Polish: Mowa jest srebrem, a milczenie złotem.

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#63

Post by seba_dos1 »

fi358 wrote: post #60
moltar wrote: post #54

Russian people are similar in that regard. We also don’t ask how are you. It’s mostly transactional with strangers.

In Finland we sometimes ask how are you, especially if we know the person. However, it is usually meant to be a real question and not just empty phrase where "fine" is regarded as the only correct answer.

I'm so glad that recently on an interview with a foreign company, when I got asked "how are you?" at the beginning, it felt strange enough to remind me "just say 'fine' and be done with it" :D

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#64

Post by eesmith »

buboard wrote: post #50
salvar wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking from an Icelandic perspective, I think the 'love of socialism' stems from the fact that we've pretty much always needed to rely on one another to just survive in the harsh living conditions. Of course, these conditions have improved drastically since the early 20th century but I think a lot of the culture remains.

> needed to rely on one another You would expect that to result in much more elaborate social rituals

As I understand it, Denmark and Sweden (and perhaps the other Nordic countries?) used to have more elaborate social rituals until relatively recently.

Eg, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Du-reformen .

I seem to recall that people could also referred by their job title, eg, "Mr. Programmer", and even listed in the phone book that way. But I can't verify that.

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#65

Post by dingaling »

illuminati1911 wrote: post #7

(I’m a Finn) I didn’t know what small talk was until I went to study abroad. Most of my foreign classmates often asked me things like ”how are you doing?” etc. and when I literally answered them what I had been up to recently they were very confused. ”Dude...no need to tell your life story, just say ’good’ and that’s it” I replied ”Why do you ask a question if you don’t care about the answer?” I learned the hard way,…

How do Finns flirt without smalltalk? Just jump straight to 'do you find me attractive?' and 'do you want to date?'

Though admittedly I used to work with an Irish guy whose sole chat-up line was 'are ye ridin?' and who had considerable success.

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#67

Post by vidarh »

buboard wrote: post #50
salvar wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking from an Icelandic perspective, I think the 'love of socialism' stems from the fact that we've pretty much always needed to rely on one another to just survive in the harsh living conditions. Of course, these conditions have improved drastically since the early 20th century but I think a lot of the culture remains.

> needed to rely on one another You would expect that to result in much more elaborate social rituals

Social rituals have a cost. Nordic social rituals are there, but they are terse and focused around seeing certain behaviours as a duty. Look to more austere religious groups, and consider most of the Nordic countries were very much firmly Lutheran and largely saw "elaborate social rituals" as excess.

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#68

Post by buboard »

vidarh wrote: post #61
buboard wrote: post #8

[flagged]

The "love of socialism" in the Nordic countries is not particularly old. Germany got a welfare system long before Norway for example, then motivated by mix of fear of the Marxists and Christian morality (Bismarck pushed it through with the support of Zentrum; one of the forerunners of todays CDU). What happened in Scandinavia was not that Scandinavians were all that much more socialist than the rest of Europe, but th…

I removed the S word and replaced it with welfare state which was my intention

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#70

Post by dvfjsdhgfv »

dingaling wrote: post #65
illuminati1911 wrote: post #7

(I’m a Finn) I didn’t know what small talk was until I went to study abroad. Most of my foreign classmates often asked me things like ”how are you doing?” etc. and when I literally answered them what I had been up to recently they were very confused. ”Dude...no need to tell your life story, just say ’good’ and that’s it” I replied ”Why do you ask a question if you don’t care about the answer?” I learned the hard way,…

How do Finns flirt without smalltalk? Just jump straight to 'do you find me attractive?' and 'do you want to date?' Though admittedly I used to work with an Irish guy whose sole chat-up line was 'are ye ridin?' and who had considerable success.

A person I met on a plane to Oulu told me her experience (so I have no idea how representative this is): the guy took her out, then they were drinking - but he was barely talking at all - and in the end he asked, "Do you wanna have sex?" Which is funny as I met several Finns who were not like that, they seemed to enjoy talking and company and general.
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