Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple deprecates Java

developer.apple.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 277 posts

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#61

Post by pmjordan »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #55
blub wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with GTK, and I recommend Qt. I use several GTK apps on Windows and they don't look native. Furthermore, GTK has some deeply ingrained usability issues - such as the close button - that they bring to all platforms.

Which close button are you talking about and how is it inherent to GTK?

I'm guessing the close button on dockable floating windows.

Is there an implementation of GTK that doesn't run via X11 on the mac? Gimp/Inkscape are lovely software on Linux, but using them on the Mac drives me insane. They're "meh" on Windows.

I concluded a while back that the only decent way to do GUI programming properly was to develop multiple native frontends for the platforms you want to support. Everything else seems to produce crap.

I haven't found the ideal runtime/language for this yet, though. The C family is an obvious candidate but is a little more low level than necessary for desktop apps. .NET/Mono seems promising, though I do worry about having to distribute the Mono runtime with apps. Plus, people seem to have an irrational fear of it (though probably not end-users).

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#62

Post by blub »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #55
blub wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with GTK, and I recommend Qt. I use several GTK apps on Windows and they don't look native. Furthermore, GTK has some deeply ingrained usability issues - such as the close button - that they bring to all platforms.

Which close button are you talking about and how is it inherent to GTK?

Here's an example: I use WorkRave to remind myself to take breaks. If I open the preferences dialog, I can close it by pressing Close, clicking the X in the corner or pressing Esc. No matter what I do, my changes are saved.

In Windows the guideline is to use Ok & Cancel buttons while most of the GTK apps I've seen use just a Close button. GIMP is a mixed experience: most dialogs have both buttons while others just the close button.

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#63

Post by xentronium »

Does this effectively mean that I will not be able to use java application on newer OS X at all (in case of java runtime support removal), or I will have to install some third party java package?

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#64

Post by alexyoung »

Maybe the fact WebObjects was removed from Snow Leopard Server means they don't depend on it internally as much?

It seems like they've been cooling off on Java development and support over the last few years.

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#65

Post by pmjordan »

lyso wrote: post #56
pmjordan wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Cocoa (UI) bindings were already deprecated sometime during 10.4/Tiger if I remember correctly.

However it isn't just the Cocoa bindings that are important. AFAIK SoyLatte's Swing/AWT elements run through X11. Apple's Java allows for Java GUIs without starting X11.

Indeed, this will presumably affect users of Eclipse, Netbeans and similar. Not sure how many non-developer apps make use of those APIs, though, especially as they don't quite produce native look & feel. (still much better than X11, which is indeed terrible on OSX)

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#66

Post by rmc »

lyso wrote: post #56
pmjordan wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Cocoa (UI) bindings were already deprecated sometime during 10.4/Tiger if I remember correctly.

However it isn't just the Cocoa bindings that are important. AFAIK SoyLatte's Swing/AWT elements run through X11. Apple's Java allows for Java GUIs without starting X11.

X11 is horrible on OSX. Applications that use it (e.g. The GIMP on OSX), are terrible and have many usability flaws, such as no clipboard between an X11 application and a normal application.

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#67

Post by ramchip »

pmjordan wrote: post #61
FooBarWidget wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which close button are you talking about and how is it inherent to GTK?

I'm guessing the close button on dockable floating windows. Is there an implementation of GTK that doesn't run via X11 on the mac? Gimp/Inkscape are lovely software on Linux, but using them on the Mac drives me insane. They're "meh" on Windows. I concluded a while back that the only decent way to do GUI programming properly was to develop multiple native frontends for the platforms you want to support. Everything els…

What about Qt? It looks good for me, although I never tried on a mac.

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#69

Post by buster »

masklinn wrote: post #21
thibaut_barrere wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real question: is there an alternate, well-tested Java runtime that someone would advise to use afterwards ? Sidenote: I can only imagine the guy who wrote "Java Deprecation" in h2 font-size 187%, jiggling inside at the moment he did. EDIT: I understand it's only a "possibility of removal", yet if I started working on a JVM-based app/product right now, I would be concerned.

> Real question: is there an alternate, well-tested Java runtime that someone would advise to use afterwards ? Please carefully note the wording: > This means that the Apple-produced runtime will not be maintained at the same level, and may be removed from future versions of Mac OS X. The Java runtime shipping in Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard, and Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard, will continue to be supported and maintained throu…

I think "may be removed from future versions of Mac OS X" sounds pretty much like it is very likely that it will be removed.

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#70

Post by albertzeyer »

rimantas wrote: post #58
hboon wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Had no idea Cyberduck is written in Java. If only all Java desktop applications are like this.

I use SmartSVN, wouldn't call it ugly.

But this seems to be AWT. And the GUI just doesn't feel as snappy as native Cocoa.

Actually, I wonder why that is. I always thought that it is Java itself which makes Java applications feel slow. But I haven't noticed this in Cyberduck. So maybe it is just AWT.

I wonder why that might be. Maybe because AWT does all the drawing itself, which is much slower compared to the native toolkit?

Post reply on HN