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Alphabet's cyber unit Jigsaw introduces a new security app to bust censorship

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Re: Alphabet's cyber unit Jigsaw introduces a new security app to bust censorship

#61

Post by xg15 »

bun_at_work wrote: post #29
philip1209 wrote: post #19

These dual standards for censorship annoy me. Google on Venezuelan censoring: bad, fight it Google on Chinese censoring: complicit, support it

Just a few things: 1) This tool is made by an Alphabet owned company (Jigsaw), not Google, another Alphabet owned company. The companies will have different missions, even if profits flow the same direction. 2) Venezuela doesn't have a huge market where Google is blocked by a nation-wide firewall. 3) China has a nation-wide firewall blocking any Google service, thereby forcing Google to negotiate how their service wo…

> China has a nation-wide firewall blocking any Google service, thereby forcing Google to negotiate how their service works if they want to make money there.

So if the Chinese demand they get real-time access to all information Google has stored about anyone, or Google gets banned from China, they should do that too?

Re: Alphabet's cyber unit Jigsaw introduces a new security app to bust censorship

#63

Post by mikeash »

r3bl wrote: post #45

Can we get a rename of this story? "Alphabet's Jigsaw" would be more appropriate. Jigsaw is, at best, a sibling of Google, not a part of Google. It is explained in the very first sentence, but comments so far don't seem to acknowledge that.

This is an interesting communications dilemma.

I don't think most people have really understood the Google/Alphabet transition. When most people think of "Google" they're actually thinking of Alphabet.

If you say "Google" then you're conveying the correct information using the wrong term. If you say "Alphabet" then you're using the right term but a lot of people won't know what you're talking about. What to do?

This is probably less of a problem on HN than it is for TechCrunch.

Re: Alphabet's cyber unit Jigsaw introduces a new security app to bust censorship

#64

Post by surajrmal »

mattigames wrote: post #48
aikah wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is one of these US tech companies claiming they have moral values in their code of conduct, using such words as "evil".

They no longer use that word.

That's incorrect, it's still in the code of conduct. It's the last statement: https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct.html

Re: Alphabet's cyber unit Jigsaw introduces a new security app to bust censorship

#65

Post by CydeWeys »

mikeash wrote: post #63
r3bl wrote: post #45

Can we get a rename of this story? "Alphabet's Jigsaw" would be more appropriate. Jigsaw is, at best, a sibling of Google, not a part of Google. It is explained in the very first sentence, but comments so far don't seem to acknowledge that.

This is an interesting communications dilemma. I don't think most people have really understood the Google/Alphabet transition. When most people think of "Google" they're actually thinking of Alphabet. If you say "Google" then you're conveying the correct information using the wrong term. If you say "Alphabet" then you're using the right term but a lot of people won't know what you're talking about. What to do? This…

I would really hope that everyone on HN knows what Alphabet is by now. If necessary, it can be written as "Alphabet (Google's parent company)". The TechCrunch crowd is pretty similar and should mostly know this too, right?

Re: Alphabet's cyber unit Jigsaw introduces a new security app to bust censorship

#66

Post by r3bl »

sharcerer wrote: post #30
jerkstate wrote: post #14

Given Google's track record of working with oppressive governments, why would anyone rational trust them with this kind of sensitive information?

I think Jigsaw has a good record of making tools which work for the oppressed sections or in areas of cybersecurity/censorship etc. Good work must be appreciated. I don't think any other Big Co. has a division dedicated to solving such specific problems. Yeah, the China bit is really saddening/irritating. They're gonna crush their own legacy.

Don't forget about the Project Zero team!

Regardless of my privacy concerns regarding Google and other Alphabet-owned businesses, Jigsaw and Project Zero teams deserve to be praised by anyone who gives a shit about privacy/security.

Re: Alphabet's cyber unit Jigsaw introduces a new security app to bust censorship

#67

Post by [deleted] »

pretendscholar wrote: post #47
bun_at_work wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a few things: 1) This tool is made by an Alphabet owned company (Jigsaw), not Google, another Alphabet owned company. The companies will have different missions, even if profits flow the same direction. 2) Venezuela doesn't have a huge market where Google is blocked by a nation-wide firewall. 3) China has a nation-wide firewall blocking any Google service, thereby forcing Google to negotiate how their service wo…

>2) Venezuela doesn't have a huge market where Google is blocked by a nation-wide firewall. How is that a justification?

[deleted]

Re: Alphabet's cyber unit Jigsaw introduces a new security app to bust censorship

#68

Post by blfr »

mikeash wrote: post #63
r3bl wrote: post #45

Can we get a rename of this story? "Alphabet's Jigsaw" would be more appropriate. Jigsaw is, at best, a sibling of Google, not a part of Google. It is explained in the very first sentence, but comments so far don't seem to acknowledge that.

This is an interesting communications dilemma. I don't think most people have really understood the Google/Alphabet transition. When most people think of "Google" they're actually thinking of Alphabet. If you say "Google" then you're conveying the correct information using the wrong term. If you say "Alphabet" then you're using the right term but a lot of people won't know what you're talking about. What to do? This…

Don't know about most people but I understand the idea of a holding company. I don't care though.

It's still Google because it's the most important part. A synecdoche, not a misconception.

Re: Alphabet's cyber unit Jigsaw introduces a new security app to bust censorship

#69

Post by mattigames »

surajrmal wrote: post #64
mattigames wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They no longer use that word.

That's incorrect, it's still in the code of conduct. It's the last statement: https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct.html

Sorry, I stand corrected.

Re: Alphabet's cyber unit Jigsaw introduces a new security app to bust censorship

#70

Post by blfr »

aikah wrote: post #32
Shivetya wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google isn't the only big tech company to cave to China's demands

Google is one of these US tech companies claiming they have moral values in their code of conduct, using such words as "evil".

It meant "don't become Microsoft." HNers keep bringing it up as if they didn't live through the late 90s. Am I old now?

And it worked. Sadly, there are many more evils in the world than becoming Microsoft.

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