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Kubernetes for personal projects? No thanks

carlosrdrz.es

61–70 of 278 posts

Re: Kubernetes for personal projects? No thanks

#61
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recommend having a look at DCOS

I recently started working with DCOS, and so far it seems that while it might have been more mature and ready platform 2-3 years ago, today I have to deal with issues I don't have to care about on K8s

Curious to know what.

We run a DCOS cluster with 40+ machines and we have to deal with pretty much nothing

Re: Kubernetes for personal projects? No thanks

#62
post #58

I work as an engine mechanic full time, and im learning programming as a hobby. Kubernetes to me is like the shade-tree mechanic vs the professional. Professional mechanics use high grade tools that can cost thousands of dollars each. We have laser alignment rigs, plasma cutters, computer controlled balancing and timing hardware, and high performance benchmarking hardware that can cost as much as the car you're worki…

This might actually be the stupidest fucking thing I have ever read.

Re: Kubernetes for personal projects? No thanks

#63
post #56
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While that's great, and I thought about plugging my own containers project here too, to get it some exposure and possibly help someone (we're trying to help people get on the train, and that's commendable, I didn't downvote you) now you've gone from something bespoke to something basically singular, where Kubernetes is a leading industry standard with the weight of at least[1] 77 vendors who have sought and achieved…

"If you are on Kubernetes, then you are not locked in to any cloud provider" ...but I would be beholden to GNU/Linux and have to do the same thing I do with SmartOS in a far more complex way, built on an operating system substrate which cannot provide the reliability that I need to be able to sleep through my nights without an incident. Kubernetes, Docker, Linux are a time sink that I can never get back, on things wh…

> the same thing I do with SmartOS in a far more complex way

Citation needed. Yes, Kubernetes runs on Linux kernel and until someone ports it to use something other than iptables and the linux cgroups API, that will be true. But I could say the same thing about being locked into SVR4/OpenSolaris, and I bet you a Coke that a lot more people will agree with me.

The Kubernetes slack community has over 48,000 members and nearly 1000 are online right now. Can you say that about SmartOS? There's a ton of value in that vibrant community. This is not meant to be a dig, seriously where do you go when you need SmartOS support?

Re: Kubernetes for personal projects? No thanks

#64
post #58

I work as an engine mechanic full time, and im learning programming as a hobby. Kubernetes to me is like the shade-tree mechanic vs the professional. Professional mechanics use high grade tools that can cost thousands of dollars each. We have laser alignment rigs, plasma cutters, computer controlled balancing and timing hardware, and high performance benchmarking hardware that can cost as much as the car you're worki…

I don't quite resonate with the analogy here. It's about using the right tool for the job. Most small-scale personal projects, by their very definition, don't require an orchestration framework.

Re: Kubernetes for personal projects? No thanks

#65
post #50
post #5

I totally agree with this article. I'm giving a point of a view of a pure developer who knows nothing about DevOps things and managing servers. I kind of know what NGINX is and barely know how to configure something like systemd. I recently setup a digital ocean droplet and setup my blog there to actually understand how it works. It was great because I learned a ton and feel in control. Pretty simple setup - single d…

> I understand it gets expensive quickly, but I really want to see the cost difference of Heroku vs the time spent for the engineering team to manage all the complexities of devops, automated deploys, scaling, and I'm not even mentioning all the data/logging/monitoring things that Heroku allows to add with 1 click. Well, if you use a k8s cluster on GKE for example, you will have literally all those things by default.…

GKE is nice, probably the best K8s experience, but it's still a heck of a lot more complicated than Heroku.

Re: Kubernetes for personal projects? No thanks

#66
post #58

I work as an engine mechanic full time, and im learning programming as a hobby. Kubernetes to me is like the shade-tree mechanic vs the professional. Professional mechanics use high grade tools that can cost thousands of dollars each. We have laser alignment rigs, plasma cutters, computer controlled balancing and timing hardware, and high performance benchmarking hardware that can cost as much as the car you're worki…

This doesn't make sense, and it's really the opposite of what you're saying. K8s is hard, but for large scale you need something robust that's tested at that scale. A collection of shell scripts is more like a beginner tool set. Yes, it's easy to learn, but it will break when you get serious.

Re: Kubernetes for personal projects? No thanks

#67
post #24

"Oh man, the original article went way over the author's head." No, the author of the Kubernetes article completely, so utterly missed the point that it's not even funny: none of those Kubernetes complications are necessary if one runs SmartOS and optionally, as a bonus, Triton. Since doing something the harder and more complicated way for the same effect is irrational, which presumably the author of the Kubernetes a…

If you go to joyent.com you'll see "Multi-Cloud Kubernetes" is on their homepage above the fold and listed in their products & services category. SmartOS is an operating system. Triton is a data center for running container instances. Kubernetes is a container orchestration tool. These are all solving separate problems...

Re: Kubernetes for personal projects? No thanks

#68
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do agree with you, but I don't think I really missed the point of the original article. From the original article: > However popular wisdom would suggest that Kubernetes is an overly complex piece of technology only really suitable for very large clusters of machines; that it carries a large operational burden and that therefore using it for anything less than dozens of machines is overkill. I think that's probably…

> using it for anything less than dozens of machines is overkill The question isn't really whether you need dozens of machines, it's whether you can foresee eventually maybe needing dozens of machines. Remember the bad old days when people said that relational databases were worthless because they "don't scale", that using Mongo and other NoSQL databases were practically a necessity for doing anything modern and "web…

Kubernetes has a definite whiff of NoSQL - a massively hyped tool/technique originating from Google with oversold benefits.

I tried it about 6 months back with the intent of using it in a corporate prod environment and getting set up was... a massive pain in the ass to say the least - compared to the existing ansible set up. It was supposed to solve headaches, not cause them.

I wasn't impressed. I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up being "Angular 1.0" to someone else's react.

Re: Kubernetes for personal projects? No thanks

#69
post #63
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If you are on Kubernetes, then you are not locked in to any cloud provider" ...but I would be beholden to GNU/Linux and have to do the same thing I do with SmartOS in a far more complex way, built on an operating system substrate which cannot provide the reliability that I need to be able to sleep through my nights without an incident. Kubernetes, Docker, Linux are a time sink that I can never get back, on things wh…

> the same thing I do with SmartOS in a far more complex way Citation needed. Yes, Kubernetes runs on Linux kernel and until someone ports it to use something other than iptables and the linux cgroups API, that will be true. But I could say the same thing about being locked into SVR4/OpenSolaris, and I bet you a Coke that a lot more people will agree with me. The Kubernetes slack community has over 48,000 members and…

"Citation needed."

https://wiki.smartos.org/display/DOC/Managing+Images

https://wiki.smartos.org/display/DOC/How+to+create+a+Virtual...

https://wiki.smartos.org/display/DOC/Managing+NICs

https://wiki.smartos.org/display/DOC/Using+the+Service+Manag...

...and that's just a small, tiny sampling of what can be done, most of it doable across datacenters with Triton. With SmartOS, one virtualizes datacenters.

"seriously where do you go when you need SmartOS support?"

To read the comprehensive manual pages, then fire up DTrace, then mdb, then to the SmartOS mailing list, and if I want professional support, I pay Joyent, like I'd pay redhat, SuSE, or Canonical.

I'm a computer science major with formal education and certification in Solaris. Those tests were notoriously difficult to pass. I know C. I know UNIX. I know how to program. I know how to debug. I know how to administer UNIX systems, I know how to design physical servers from the ground up, everything someone system engineering large scale systems needs. How much support could I need with such excellent and comprehensive manual pages with lots of examples in them?

"The Kubernetes slack community has over 48,000 members and nearly 1000 are online right now"

...maybe that should tell you how "simple" Kubernetes is then, unless they're all there to grill smores, hang out and sing "Kumbayah"?

Re: Kubernetes for personal projects? No thanks

#70
post #58

I work as an engine mechanic full time, and im learning programming as a hobby. Kubernetes to me is like the shade-tree mechanic vs the professional. Professional mechanics use high grade tools that can cost thousands of dollars each. We have laser alignment rigs, plasma cutters, computer controlled balancing and timing hardware, and high performance benchmarking hardware that can cost as much as the car you're worki…

It's an old cliché, but car analogies rarely work for explaining computer phenomena. You won't be running a 1000 little kubernetes cars, and that's what k8s approach is all about running thousands of disposable little servers at Google scale.

With any car it's about making that single car more reliable or performant.

K8s doesn't care about reliability of any single instance, just the uptime of the whole service

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