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E-Ink Monitors: Ready for Prime Time?

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Re: E-Ink Monitors: Ready for Prime Time?

#61

Post by singularity2001 »

coder543 wrote: post #36
romed wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is LCDs have much worse objective performance as the backlight diminishes. E-Ink has tragically bad contrast of 15:1, but it maintains that contrast ratio in low lighting conditions. LCD panels rely on high brightness for their contrast. At very low brightness, even the best LCD display has poor contrast. OLED displays have a different problem; they have so much noise at low brightness that the image fall…

I have used both LCD and OLED smartphone displays at incredibly low brightness in pitch black rooms for a long time, and I have to completely disagree. On the other hand, E-Ink is amazing in sunlight, where smartphone displays can't get sufficiently bright.

Which smartphone displays can you set to 'incredibly low brightness'? all iPhones and Androids I've used are like bright flashlights when the lights are switched off.

Re: E-Ink Monitors: Ready for Prime Time?

#62

Post by coder543 »

fermienrico wrote: post #58
pvg wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You were suggesting light doesn't have any other 'intrinsic properties' and that's not the case - phase (a laser is not just a monochromatic light source) and polarization come to mind. Whatever it is you're trying to argue, 'light is just wavelength and intensity' is not a sensible starting point.

Also, if we go a little deeper, then intensity is really not intrinsic property of photons themselves. Photons radiate through space and are carriers of electromagnetic force. They have momentum but no mass. Its energy and momentum is a function of frequency (or wavelength). Furthermore, they also have spin angular momentum which is truly intrinsic as it does not depend on frequency. So, the saying that light is just…

It isn't possible to make light that is faster or slower than other light, so does it matter that some other property is derived from this constant* ? A property derived from one variable and a constant property is perfectly logical to refer to as intrinsic, since it's always exactly linked to one intrinsic property. Splitting hairs there doesn't make sense.

Which things can a light source vary, besides wavelength and intensity? It's easy to define intensity in this context as the photons being emitted per period of time. This isn't like trying to define the intensity of sound as an intrinsic property, when it really depends on a number of actually intrinsic variables.

*within a given medium, which is external to the light... which means it won't change based on reflected vs LCD.

Re: E-Ink Monitors: Ready for Prime Time?

#64

Post by LyndsySimon »

rubicon33 wrote: post #19

I would LOVE if E-Ink monitors became a thing. Spending all day indoors sucks. I'd love to be able to work outside in the sun for an hour or two.

I work outdoors every day when it’s warm enough, from a hammock. I use a 13” MBP. As long as you’re in the shade it’s great.

Polarized sunglasses help as well, and I have a color scheme for my terminal that’s dark-on-light that I switch to when it’s bright.

Re: E-Ink Monitors: Ready for Prime Time?

#65

Post by rubicon33 »

singularity2001 wrote: post #55
rubicon33 wrote: post #19

I would LOVE if E-Ink monitors became a thing. Spending all day indoors sucks. I'd love to be able to work outside in the sun for an hour or two.

Tried it this summer with 13'' Onyx Boox 2 as hdmi display and standalone. Both worked as expected, but somehow getting things done didn't really work well.

Interesting. Nice to know someone has used the 13" Onyx outside for work.

Curious - why didn't it work for you?

Re: E-Ink Monitors: Ready for Prime Time?

#66

Post by [deleted] »

rubicon33 wrote: post #22
adrianmonk wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might be one of those situations where things have to move forward imperfectly. First some people get eInk monitors, then OS developers see that there are at least some real users and some concrete reason to believe there's a payoff in supporting them. Then decent software support will encourage more people to get eInk monitors, and that will encourage OS developers to turn decent software support into good soft…

My worry is that E-Ink Monitors will never reach the "minimum quality" point at which they are adopted by a sufficient number of people to get the ball rolling. I don't suffer from any medical reason to use one, but, I would absolutely purchase one this second (any pay a lot for it) if it worked well. Unfortunately, what I've seen so far from the Dasung and the Onyx, isn't worth $800. I just hope these companies have…

[deleted]

Re: E-Ink Monitors: Ready for Prime Time?

#67

Post by [deleted] »

glup wrote: post #10

I feel like I've been looking into this every 6 months since the mid 2000's and there's still little progress. I would be thrilled if someone made a 20" - 27"screen with a simple HDMI connection; I don't care about the refresh rate.

[deleted]

Re: E-Ink Monitors: Ready for Prime Time?

#68

Post by coder543 »

singularity2001 wrote: post #61
coder543 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have used both LCD and OLED smartphone displays at incredibly low brightness in pitch black rooms for a long time, and I have to completely disagree. On the other hand, E-Ink is amazing in sunlight, where smartphone displays can't get sufficiently bright.

Which smartphone displays can you set to 'incredibly low brightness'? all iPhones and Androids I've used are like bright flashlights when the lights are switched off.

It's all relative. I don't own a single flashlight that can be set dimmer (or anywhere close to as dim) as my iPhone XS Max is at minimum brightness on a white page. If the XS Max is showing mostly-dark content, the amount of light emitted is really tiny at minimum brightness because of that OLED display.

On the various Android devices I've owned, I've used a useful app called Screen Filter that adds a translucent layer on top of all apps to dim the screen beyond the artificial manufacturer-imposed minimum brightness, which worked especially well on OLED Android phones, but also LCDs worked fine too.

Re: E-Ink Monitors: Ready for Prime Time?

#69

Post by snovv_crash »

coder543 wrote: post #43
pvg wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

does light have any other intrinsic properties besides spectrum/wavelengths and intensity? Sure, think of things like polarizing filters, lasers, etc.

Lasers are just a method of creating light of a single wavelength. The light itself from the laser is still defined by its wavelength and intensity. Polarization is just related to the orientation of the electromagnetic waves, and it is a property I didn't mention, you're correct. I don't think it really matters here, though. It's kind of like which direction you shine a light, except whether the waves are all orient…

Light from lasers is also phase coherent. This is in sharp contrast to LED, incandescent etc.

Re: E-Ink Monitors: Ready for Prime Time?

#70

Post by Roritharr »

hnuser1234 wrote: post #34
xkcd-sucks wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mammalian visual system has been the predominant model system used in developmental neurobiology research for the past fiftyish years. It's generally known at this point that visual circuits pattern themselves according to input, and that visual systems fed from a constrained input domain lose the ability to meaningfully represent real-world input. We also know that computer displays show a very restricted subset…

Everything you said sounds really impressive, but >visual systems fed from a constrained input domain lose the ability to meaningfully represent real-world input. Seems to imply that looking at a computer monitor for too much of your life means you won't be able to see the real world, or not "see it right", whatever that means. The only example of that I've seen is some people (kids, presumably) commenting on the Nvi…

To add an anecdote from my adolescence: When I was 12-15 I spent pretty much all my time indoors, playing PC games or learning how to code. I realized I hadn't visited the river I was living basically next to for atleast two years when I had to pick something up at a booth next to it. I realized there that I found the water in Star Wars Galaxies much more "realistic" than the actual river flowing by. This freaked me out so much that I took a week off of gaming and went to take walks for a week.
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