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A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

latimes.com

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Re: A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

#61

Post by iforgotpassword »

bbddg wrote: post #50

If there was any justice in the world, the US officials who dictated military action in Vietnam would be tried for war crimes.

Well, that's the exception unfortunately, especially of you're on the winning side. Even in Germany, which is often held as a prime example on taking responsibility for their actions during WW2 afterwards, quite a bunch of medium to high ranked officials got away. Another example is Japan. Even fewer were prosecuted and punished for their war crimes there, even though the US were paying close attention first. It became less important after it turned out Japan could be a great ally for the US's involvements in Asia, so a lot of them could get off the hook.

Re: A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

#62

Post by fit2rule »

bbddg wrote: post #50

If there was any justice in the world, the US officials who dictated military action in Vietnam would be tried for war crimes.

If there was justice in the world, Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld, and Obama would all be in The Hague, in irons.

There is no justice in the world.

Re: A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

#63

Post by fit2rule »

qubax wrote: post #11

It's a bit strange that we are remembering the "hero" but not the 500 or so innocent vietnamese men, women, children and infants who were raped, tortured and/or killed. Strange how we always have to make ourselves the good guys. The "heroes". If you look at the war photos. You'll see infants. Such a horrific war. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre It's also strange that we say this is the worst event in vi…

All of America's wars since Vietnam have been horrific war.

You should put as much energy into observing the victims of Americas illegal wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, too .. America hasn't stopped killing innocent children.

Americans, however, have stopped caring about it.

Re: A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

#64

Post by rumcajz »

Theodores wrote: post #28
elboru wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s scary, we all like to judge others’ actions in order to feel morally superior, but what percentage of people would actually do something when they see their peers, friends, colleagues and superiors doing bad stuff? It’ll be always easier to go along and just fool yourself and say “I’m just following orders”

It is not as simple as that though. We know from war and concentration camps how many people 'just follow orders'. Briefly... In WW2 the Nazis learned from the Soviets that mass graves were a bad thing if discovered. They also knew that the Final Solution was an actual crime, the leaders acknowledged this but deemed the crime to be necessary for the survival of their own imaginably 'Aryan' race. Hence they got the So…

I've done a little research into rescuers during Holocaust. You may find that interesting.

http://250bpm.com/blog:125

Re: A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

#65

Post by srean »

groestl wrote: post #48
mc32 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t that how it usually works. Japan remembers its war dead, we remember ours. They rember their heroes, we remember ours. Same for Soviets, Germans, British, French, Spanish, Philipinoes, Indians, Pakistanis, etc..

Since you mention the Germans: Their process of working through the past ("Vergangenheitsbewältigung") very much includes remembering the victims, massacres and non-heros, as well as embarrassement and remorse, while spending very little energy discussing the actions of positive figures. And even they are seldomly described as "heroes" ("Helden"), probably to avoid any ambiguity regarding the responsibility of the Ge…

I have the utmost regard for Germany. I cant think of another example where the entire country acknowledged their own wrongdoings with sincerity. I have no skin in the game, but in some weird way it makes me feel proud for them

Re: A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

#66

Post by abalone »

GuardianCaveman wrote: post #51
abalone wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are a lot of My Lai's and William Calley's in other countries throughout history. But far fewer Hugh Thompson's and to me that's the 'real' America. There were a lot of My Lai’s in Vietnam . Biggest misconception is that it was some kind of fluke. But in a “war” where entire civillian populated areas were designated “free fire zones” where you could kill anything that moves, civillian massacres were the norm.…

As the article quotes one soldier there was a mai Lai every month. You make it sound like this was a fact in the article. One unnamed soldier claimed that. And I think the free fire zones were much more centered on artillery and air strikes and not ground infiltrations just walking and shooting whomever they wanted to, but it’s still horrible the disregard for human life. But to state as you do that civilian mass mur…

That is pure unresearched wishful thinking.

They would fly helicopters up to farmers on a field who would look up at them in confusion and do nothing. Then they'd turn on a siren and when the farmers scattered they shot them all down for taking "evasive action", making them "combatants". There'd be reports of raids with hundreds of "viet cong" killed and a few weapons recovered. The killing machine was about body counts. Kissinger ordered "anything that flies on everything that moves." Villages were leveled in indiscriminate, massive bombing campaigns that exceeded twice the ordinance dropped in WWII. Millions were killed.

If you really want to research what happened in Vietnam start with Nick Turse's Kill Anything That Moves.[1] It's a polemical title but it's based on a ton of primary research, e.g. the Pentagon's War Crimes Working Group and the National Archives and interviews with over a hundred veterans. And that stuff will make any good soul polemical.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/dp/1250045061/ref=rdr_ext_tmb

Re: A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

#67

Post by watwut »

Theodores wrote: post #28
elboru wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s scary, we all like to judge others’ actions in order to feel morally superior, but what percentage of people would actually do something when they see their peers, friends, colleagues and superiors doing bad stuff? It’ll be always easier to go along and just fool yourself and say “I’m just following orders”

It is not as simple as that though. We know from war and concentration camps how many people 'just follow orders'. Briefly... In WW2 the Nazis learned from the Soviets that mass graves were a bad thing if discovered. They also knew that the Final Solution was an actual crime, the leaders acknowledged this but deemed the crime to be necessary for the survival of their own imaginably 'Aryan' race. Hence they got the So…

Regular German army was part of ethnic cleansing and committed a lot of atrocities. It was not just camps, it was also random violence against citizens.

They did not missed on purpose. They burned whole villages.

You did not needed to be on the frontline to be killed by them, anywhere in occupied territory was enough.

Re: A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

#68

Post by kungtotte »

iforgotpassword wrote: post #58
kungtotte wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two cities. They didn't stop at one, they did it twice.

Sure, since they didn't surrender after the first one. And there might have been a third one...

Yeah, three days seems a reasonable time to wait before having another go after using the first nuclear bomb offensively in the history of mankind.

Stupid Japanese for not surrendering immediately...

Re: A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

#69

Post by hef19898 »

romwell wrote: post #12

I wouldn't call him forgotten - while I'm bad with remembering names, when I saw "My Lai", the first thing that came to mind was "that badass helicopter pilot who landed his helicopter between civilians and US soldiers, and threatened to open fire to protect the civilians". What I didn't know was that he took so much flak for that - from statements that he should be the one punished to death threats and dead animals…

This is the proof that war really brings out the worst or the best in people. Unfortunately most of the time it is the worst.

Re: A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

#70

Post by candiodari »

fit2rule wrote: post #60
InclinedPlane wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hasn't really stopped either. Read up on things like the shoddy evidence that goes into drone bombing or the crimes of Seal Team Six or the many other horrific acts the US military has done in recent years and decades. If anything it seems like we are getting better at sweeping this stuff under the rug.

Yes, thats the point of this history lesson - we are still committing these crimes, on a regular basis, with impunity. The only ones who can do anything about it is civilians. But, none of us seem to be too bothered by the 300,000 innocent lives lost, because America needs war.

"we" sadly means all of humanity. This is a problem of government forces in general:

Here's the other side in that same war doing it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_at_Hu%E1%BA%BF

Here's UN forces: https://www.apnews.com/69e56ab46cab400f9f4b3753bd79c930

The Dutch army: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rawagede_massacre

Saudi forces: https://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/a-saudi-coal...

The French army: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bab_El_Oued

Japan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731

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