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What is ActivityPub, and how will it change the internet?

jeremydormitzer.com

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Re: What is ActivityPub, and how will it change the internet?

#61

Post by hello_marmalade »

irrational wrote: post #50
hello_marmalade wrote: post #29

The idea that you should be able to shield or blind yourself to content is a flat out stupid one. Not to mention that the way Mastodon works kinda lends it self to the old issue of jerk forum admins. If an instance owner doesn't like what you say for any reason they boot you off. They can also share that information with other instances to block you from going to those instances as well. Sure, you could start your ow…

>The idea that you should be able to shield or blind yourself to content is a flat out stupid one. I must be stupid, because I don't understand why I shouldn't have this right.

Because it's counter-productive. I agree with it insofar as things like spam, which has nothing to do with communication, really - but when it comes to just simply, speech, it's a bad idea.

Lets take a really overly simplified example. Lets say you don't like people who like Purple. You're a Pink guy, through and through. In fact you hate people who like Purple. You think they're all jerks. So - you decide, you're going to make it so that you, and anyone else on your sever doesn't have to see Purple posters.

Half a year later, you find out that most people now believe in Purple. You don't find this out until people are telling you about how good Purple is in real life. When did all these people turn to Purple?

The problem I'm trying to illustrate here, is that as someone who is all about Pink - and opposed to Purple, you've taken yourself out of the opposing conversation. You didn't realize that Purple had the stage, and had been convincing people to go Purple. You didn't realize how much ground Purple gained, with nobody there to speak out about how bad Purple is.

While it might feel nice to not have to see things you don't like, in the broader sphere of the world and the place you live, it's damaging. You need to be aware of, and have to confront things you don't like. It's part of your civic duty.

Re: What is ActivityPub, and how will it change the internet?

#62

Post by hello_marmalade »

Shish2k wrote: post #35
hello_marmalade wrote: post #29

The idea that you should be able to shield or blind yourself to content is a flat out stupid one. Not to mention that the way Mastodon works kinda lends it self to the old issue of jerk forum admins. If an instance owner doesn't like what you say for any reason they boot you off. They can also share that information with other instances to block you from going to those instances as well. Sure, you could start your ow…

> The idea that you should be able to shield or blind yourself to content is a flat out stupid one I'm sure I must be misunderstanding this, because it sounds like you're saying "dick pics and other forms of harrassment are fine, you shouldn't even want to avoid them"? Can you explain what you actually mean, assuming that that isn't it?

Perhaps I should have been more specific, but what I mean is forms of reasonable legal content. Sexual harassment is not content. General sexual content has legitimate reasons for having, say a content warning filter (same with violent content), but I would argue against it's outright banning.

Re: What is ActivityPub, and how will it change the internet?

#63

Post by gnopgnip »

hello_marmalade wrote: post #60
MattJ100 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sure, you could start your own or join an instance that doesn't do that kinda stuff, but then what's the point of federation? That is exactly the point of federation. Maybe jerk admins are a real problem, maybe they aren't - but they can't boot you off the network, and you'll always have options.

Well more specifically, what I was trying to say is, if you wanted to be part of, say - the cross-stitching community, and you made a post about how over-under stitching sucks, and so the owner of that server banned you, and then let every other cross-stitching based mastodon know about your terrible stitching beliefs, then while you can still "join" another mastodon instance, you are effectively removed completely f…

That is only if the entire cross stitching community chooses to remove you. The alternative is facebook, and if facebook decides to remove you it doesn't matter what the cross stitching community says, you are out

Re: What is ActivityPub, and how will it change the internet?

#64

Post by wvenable »

hello_marmalade wrote: post #61
irrational wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The idea that you should be able to shield or blind yourself to content is a flat out stupid one. I must be stupid, because I don't understand why I shouldn't have this right.

Because it's counter-productive. I agree with it insofar as things like spam, which has nothing to do with communication, really - but when it comes to just simply, speech, it's a bad idea. Lets take a really overly simplified example. Lets say you don't like people who like Purple. You're a Pink guy, through and through. In fact you hate people who like Purple. You think they're all jerks. So - you decide, you're go…

You're talking about filtering types of speech but in reality you really want to block people. It's not that Bob is really enthusiastic about Purple; it's that he's an insufferable jerk that makes any conversation about Pink impossible.

You think you can try and compete with Bob but you can't; he's mentally ill and spends 6 hours a day posting about it. You could try to make a rational argument about the evils of Purple but it dosn't matter. You confront Bob but he's not interested in rational conversation. You just get more frustrated and eventually give up on your community. If there is still anyone still interested in Pink they've long been driven off.

Re: What is ActivityPub, and how will it change the internet?

#65

Post by throwaway8879 »

stcredzero wrote: post #46
CM30 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The idea that you should be able to shield or blind yourself to content is a flat out stupid one. Honest question: Do you feel private organisations and communities shouldn't be able to kick out people they dislike? Because that's how almost all organisations and groups work, real life, internet or otherwise. Doesn't seem very unreasonable to say someone running a hobbyist club or sports team or business should be a…

Do you feel private organisations and communities shouldn't be able to kick out people they dislike? Because that's how almost all organisations and groups work, real life, internet or otherwise. Do you feel like people should be excluded because of their race? Their gender? Their age? Their sexual orientation? Their religion? Isn't that last one a choice according to a lot of people? People should be able to make in…

Private business are not "places in the public sphere" and should be exclusionary if they want to. You think the New York Times is going to publish something just because someone sends in their thoughts? It doesn't work that way, and neither should media on the internet.

Re: What is ActivityPub, and how will it change the internet?

#67

Post by ocdtrekkie »

throwaway8879 wrote: post #65
stcredzero wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you feel private organisations and communities shouldn't be able to kick out people they dislike? Because that's how almost all organisations and groups work, real life, internet or otherwise. Do you feel like people should be excluded because of their race? Their gender? Their age? Their sexual orientation? Their religion? Isn't that last one a choice according to a lot of people? People should be able to make in…

Private business are not "places in the public sphere" and should be exclusionary if they want to. You think the New York Times is going to publish something just because someone sends in their thoughts? It doesn't work that way, and neither should media on the internet.

Private businesses are absolutely places in the public sphere. If you pull your pants down in the middle of a Wal-Mart, are you not exposing yourself in public?

YouTube, Twitter, etc. and similar public sites with predominantly public content are absolutely "in the public sphere", and definitely the modern analogue of the street corner you can shout your feelings in.

We really no longer have the luxury of saying the government is the only entity that needs to respect your freedom of speech, and the law desperately needs to catch up with that reality.

Re: What is ActivityPub, and how will it change the internet?

#68

Post by stcredzero »

someguydave wrote: post #48
stcredzero wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you feel private organisations and communities shouldn't be able to kick out people they dislike? Because that's how almost all organisations and groups work, real life, internet or otherwise. Do you feel like people should be excluded because of their race? Their gender? Their age? Their sexual orientation? Their religion? Isn't that last one a choice according to a lot of people? People should be able to make in…

>However, permanent places in the public sphere should not be exclusionary. How do you define "public"? > You don't fight hate by acting hatefully. Is excluding someone a hateful act?

Is excluding someone a hateful act?

It depends on how you do it. If it's of the same side, flying the same colors that wants to enact violence, then the other signifiers of hate can be read pretty reliably.

Re: What is ActivityPub, and how will it change the internet?

#69

Post by jgroszko »

dragontamer wrote: post #24
mikedilger wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely unmoderated is also not the right balance. I wouldn't want to be part of a completely unmoderated instance. Moderation is tricky. I am suggesting only that the most politically charged forms of moderation be toned down. Changing usernames when you change instances is also a very significant problem. Are there proposals for addressing that?

Your username generally has to change if you don't like your email provider. Either that, or you host your own (ex: email@mydomain.blah). That is a point though: moderators change over time and a moderation team you like one year may be grossly different 5-years from now. To "leave" to a new instance means to give up your old identity entirely.

Your username has nothing to do with your email address. Usernames take the form of @myusername@instance.domain.

You lose followers when you change instances but you can set a flag on your old account that points to the new one.

Re: What is ActivityPub, and how will it change the internet?

#70

Post by tptacek »

hello_marmalade wrote: post #61
irrational wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The idea that you should be able to shield or blind yourself to content is a flat out stupid one. I must be stupid, because I don't understand why I shouldn't have this right.

Because it's counter-productive. I agree with it insofar as things like spam, which has nothing to do with communication, really - but when it comes to just simply, speech, it's a bad idea. Lets take a really overly simplified example. Lets say you don't like people who like Purple. You're a Pink guy, through and through. In fact you hate people who like Purple. You think they're all jerks. So - you decide, you're go…

I'm not sure you've managed to get around the problem that your argument implies you have a right to demand my attention and make a claim on my time. That's a North Korean-level intrusive idea.
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