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EA reportedly under criminal investigation in Belgium due to FIFA's loot boxes

eurogamer.net

61–70 of 164 posts

Re: EA reportedly under criminal investigation in Belgium due to FIFA's loot boxes

#61
I'm a FIFA player and this is a complex situation. "Packs" in FIFA are not solely used for cosmetic items but for actual virtual players with distinct play characteristics.

EA are trying to turn FIFA into a eSports game (see the recent FIFA eWorld Cup) and the majority of play takes place in the "Ultimate Team" mode. To get the high calibre players you'd use to build up your experience and reputation in UT you either need to make a ton of coins to buy them or buy "FIFA points" with real money and open the packs.

It's pretty standard practice for the higher end players to throw money at these packs to build up teams early on, so I suspect this move will put Belgian players at a disadvantage (it's not a total nightmare as you can buy most players in 'standard' varieties for a lot less, just not the in-form ones you'd use in competition play).

Of course, at the end of the day, it's still just a game.. :-D

Re: EA reportedly under criminal investigation in Belgium due to FIFA's loot boxes

#62
post #35

Should all gambling be illegal then? I fail to see the problem with it. If somebody feels that's where she wants to put her money - great. If you arguing that's poor use of somebody's money then you may also want to ban whole lot of foods and gadgets. Those can be addictive too.

[deleted]

Re: EA reportedly under criminal investigation in Belgium due to FIFA's loot boxes

#63
post #51

Other than being digital, how are loot boxes different than being M:TG cards or baseball card packs?

Not much, except that a.) probabilities of cards with given rarity are well known b.) M:TG are niche product.

Funny things is, MTG cards are produced in Belgium; and now there is MTG: Arena, where you can either earn boosters; or pay for them with real money.

Feels a lot like loot boxes/gambling to me, in either instance. Okay, at least IRL you have a (largely unregulated) secondary market to sell/buy/trade cards.

Re: EA reportedly under criminal investigation in Belgium due to FIFA's loot boxes

#64
Mandatory disclosure: I am a programmer working for EA and the following are my personal opinions. I do not represent EA in any official capacity.

It's my strong opinion that the whole loot box phenomenon makes games as a whole worse.

For me, it's not the gambling aspects of it, per se. I am an avid Magic: the Gathering player and never decried the way its loot boxes (boosters) work. It's the fact that, the way these boxes have been handled by many games noticeably warps the design goals of the game from "make an engaging experience" to "motivate the player to buy more loot boxes".

What I mean is that many modern games have loot boxes or microtransactions permeating its design to such a degree that most features seem planned around how they motivate players to spend more money in-game.

This has been at its worst in mobile games, but there are plenty of console and PC titles with this issue as well. It's even gotten so far that big titles with no microtransactions include a heavy focus on loot boxes which can only be gained as quest rewards or bought using in-game currency (Horizon Zero Dawn comes to mind).

I really don't like it. I get no joy from wading through mountains of useless items in the hope of finding that one rare gem I actually want. This applies to ordinary loot in RPGs as well. So, seeing that the global trend has been for games to evolve in this direction has been very frustrating for me. As such, this recent pushback - both these legal actions as well as the player backlash of recent loot box controversies - have been very interesting developments which I hope will lead to market-wide improvements in overall game design.

To elaborate: I do not mind microtransactions in general. There are a few games which have plenty of ways to spend real money in-game but which do not bother me (Fortnite, Elder Scrolls Online). The key difference, here, is that those are games in which the core game loop does not heavily incentivize you to spend money and where in-game transactions will mainly get you cosmetic content or additional story campaigns.

Re: EA reportedly under criminal investigation in Belgium due to FIFA's loot boxes

#65

Other than being digital, how are loot boxes different than being M:TG cards or baseball card packs?

With MTG you can skip the whole booster buying and just get the cards you want from people who have them. The rarest most desirable cards in standard are $10-$50 at most. If you want a rare overwatch skin you have no option but keep buying boxes until you get it.

Re: EA reportedly under criminal investigation in Belgium due to FIFA's loot boxes

#66
I’m the parent of a teenager who has struggled with an unhealthy obsession with features like this. A kid who is 14 or 15 is able to intellectually understand how to use these game systems, but at the same time he or she is often lacking the type of sophisticated understanding that an adult would have (e.g. that gambling can be addictive and therefore restraint and self-observation is required). They greatly overestimate their ability to participate in a safe and healthy way.

I would like to see loot boxes out of games for players under 18. Loot boxes are not a real part of the game anyway, they are a way for the publisher add the types of subconscious psychological rewards to “increase engagement” that are now rightfully criticized in platforms like Facebook.

Re: EA reportedly under criminal investigation in Belgium due to FIFA's loot boxes

#67
post #3

I'm so happy with this, it will create a precedent. I know people that have spent a lot of money in counter-strike boxes, it works like slots machines, designed to keep you exited while you get a reward. The worst thing is now is the rule in every game (pubg, heartstone and so on..). Good job Belgium!

Counterstrike boxes contain purely cosmetics. I can't get wound up about that. You can even buy the thing you actually want on the open market.

CS:GO is not a game using lots of shitty in game mechanics/restrictions etc to drive people to spend money in order to play/compete. Same with Dota2.

Re: EA reportedly under criminal investigation in Belgium due to FIFA's loot boxes

#68
post #66

I’m the parent of a teenager who has struggled with an unhealthy obsession with features like this. A kid who is 14 or 15 is able to intellectually understand how to use these game systems, but at the same time he or she is often lacking the type of sophisticated understanding that an adult would have (e.g. that gambling can be addictive and therefore restraint and self-observation is required). They greatly overesti…

This is another area where the arbitrariness of the 18 year majority limit is exposed: 18 year olds are not neurologically adults. That doesn’t happen until like 25-29.

Re: EA reportedly under criminal investigation in Belgium due to FIFA's loot boxes

#69
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The culture has changed and is ok with gambling being inserted everywhere, especially in tech circles. Look at the threads about daily fantasy sports in HN. Many impassioned comments about how the ability to bet on sports is freedom, etc..

Having the ability to bet is freedom. Being seduced (avoiding the word 'forced' here) into betting under the guise of a game... not so much.

I don’t see the nuance between a loot box and a slot machine designed to extract $50-$100/hr from a bettor.

Re: EA reportedly under criminal investigation in Belgium due to FIFA's loot boxes

#70

Other than being digital, how are loot boxes different than being M:TG cards or baseball card packs?

With MTG you can skip the whole booster buying and just get the cards you want from people who have them. The rarest most desirable cards in standard are $10-$50 at most. If you want a rare overwatch skin you have no option but keep buying boxes until you get it.

This is a great point. No post-market locks the user into only purchasing via loot crates.
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