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Email security on Democratic campaigns is as bad as 2016

washingtonpost.com

61–70 of 114 posts

Re: Email security on Democratic campaigns is as bad as 2016

#61

I understand the challenges of end users and security, but why not give them Signal or at least Whatsapp? Email is never going to be secure, regardless, and many users can handle the new messaging applications.

We do! But then the DCCC emails them an Excel spreadsheet the next day (not joking).

It's very hard to move people entirely off of email. A big part of campaign security training is to move people onto Signal or Whatsapp, though, and I'm glad you brought it up.

Re: Email security on Democratic campaigns is as bad as 2016

#62

Reading the phrase "political truffle pig" is a win regardless of anything else you may think about this article.

The standard political nomenclature is "bundler", but I don't think I've ever witnessed a bundler describing himself as such. They prefer euphemism.

You can call me a bundler if you want, but I believe that term means something different than what I do. This site, of all places, should respect technical terminology!

Re: Email security on Democratic campaigns is as bad as 2016

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since support for APP seems to be limited to specific browsers/hardware, why not at least do TFA with a one-time passcode app? That seems to be much more widely supported, and it considerably better than whatever they may/may not be doing today..

That does not guard against the phishing scenario that is one of the biggest threats to campaigns. Any kind of two-factor auth short of a security key is inadequate against that threat.

Why do we need a physical key though? Why don't browsers communicate the url to the password/totp app, and the app only respond or allow fill-ins for matching domains?

Re: Email security on Democratic campaigns is as bad as 2016

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a couple of problems with this (and it's a good question!). One is that many campaigns are just small and don't have any in-house IT expertise, even the kind needed to run GSuite. Another is that GSuite doesn't protect people's personal accounts, which is the big risk here. APP is nice in theory, but I don't believe it's workable in practice for Congressional campaigns. The keys break too easily, and there…

You can opt in personal accounts to APP can't you? Or are you just saying it's not easy to enforce?

I'm arguing that it's a nonstarter to hand campaign staff who had not heard of security keys at the start of the meeting an easily breakable dongle and say this is the only way to get in to your email now; don't lose it. They need fallbacks (like security codes or Google Authenticator).

Re: Email security on Democratic campaigns is as bad as 2016

#65
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally: there are campaigns using APP, and it apparently hasn't been problematic in that regard.

Interesting. I wonder if they're just using browser extensions though to get the same functionality? Since if you have any browser plug-ins installed (e.g. AdBlock), you've got the same potential issue.

Here I will defer to everyone else who knows more about APP than I do; that one tidbit I brought up was related to me by an HN-phobe who didn't want to say it themselves. :)

Re: Email security on Democratic campaigns is as bad as 2016

#66
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PGP addresses literally none of the operational security problems congressional campaigns have. No matter how you protect individual emails, for most users (and probably every single congressional campaign staffer) your email account is still the most important account you have, the key to every other account you control. And PGP doesn't do a thing about incoming emails with malicious attachments. People think PGP is…

Wow, so, you really believe that asking people to lock up their important messages to you, using a public key that you've provided through a verified, alternate non-email channel really won't work? PGP actually does do something about incoming email attachments. It offers the opportunity to programmatically reject anything that is non-encrypted ASCII text, and renders malicious files as non-executable ASCII text, whe…

You can downvote all you want, but you're simply matadoring behavioral issues as if they are technical hurtles, and that's dishonest.

Re: Email security on Democratic campaigns is as bad as 2016

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I show you an impostor website purporting to be Gmail, and get you to type in your password plus authenticator code / SMS code / app notification code, I can get into your email account. If I do the same and your second factor is a security key, I get a useless binary blob that I can't turn around and hand to Google. The U2F key gets the actual URL of the page you are on from the browser, so it can't be fooled by…

> so it can't be fooled by impostor websites, however clever Can't this be defeated by DNS poisoning? TLS/HSTS would help, but that assume folks are verifying that the hostname matches the cert... (big assumption) In any case, I see your point, thank you for explaining it.

I believe there's an additional moving part in the U2F standard (channel ID) that is supposed to mitigate even if someone with a valid cert hijacks the session. But I don't believe it's implemented, and I defer to greater nerds to describe it.

Re: Email security on Democratic campaigns is as bad as 2016

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, so, you really believe that asking people to lock up their important messages to you, using a public key that you've provided through a verified, alternate non-email channel really won't work? PGP actually does do something about incoming email attachments. It offers the opportunity to programmatically reject anything that is non-encrypted ASCII text, and renders malicious files as non-executable ASCII text, whe…

You can downvote all you want, but you're simply matadoring behavioral issues as if they are technical hurtles, and that's dishonest.

"Matadoring the technical hurtles" should be some startup's slogan.

Re: Email security on Democratic campaigns is as bad as 2016

#69
Hmm...reading the headline I thought "Wait...Bob Lord works for them, surely everyone there has to have an NFC smart card surgically embedded into their skull at this point, so knowing their passwords is useless??". But then I realized he's at the DNC and the article is about _campaigns_ which presumably are separate organizations?

Re: Email security on Democratic campaigns is as bad as 2016

#70
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so it can't be fooled by impostor websites, however clever Can't this be defeated by DNS poisoning? TLS/HSTS would help, but that assume folks are verifying that the hostname matches the cert... (big assumption) In any case, I see your point, thank you for explaining it.

You don't have to verify that your hostname matches the cert. The browser does that for you. That's part of the point.

Not all browsers do that, and many major ones display a warning that users have been trained to click through because of at least a decade of similar browser warnings.
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