Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger • Hacker News Board

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#61

Post by ex3ndr » Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 6:57 PM UTC

ZoomZoomZoom wrote: post #55

rizzin wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the context of Russia, the company that made Telegram is headed by Pavel Durov, creator of the main Russian social network, vk.com. Don't know the exact history, but ultimately the social network ownership was transferred to a large IT corp, and Pavel Durov had some falling out with big wigs, and left Russia to create Telegram. He is a kind of a rebellious figure in modern Russia, and, as younger generation genera…

>> a lot of Russians use Telegram because of that. This is a big overstatement. Telegram received an initial traction from the vk.com userbase. It has very little to do with either the functionality (except may be the channels) or an ideological stance of he creators. VK simply advertised the messenger actively at launch. Practically all other IMs (except the earlier WhatsApp and Viber) have almost no userbase in Rus…

Nope, initial traction came not from VK. Source: I worked at Telegram since it's launch.

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#62

Post by varjag » Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 6:58 PM UTC

jes wrote: post #58

codedokode wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Signal or Keybase are not blocked in Russia. I suppose that is because they don't have many users like Telegram. WhatsApp is known to comply with Russian legislation (and ironically several of its addresses were accidentally blocked while trying to disrupt Telegram service).

Can you and would you say more about how WhatsApp accommodates Russian legislation?

It renders user metadata and contact lists on request.

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#63

Post by varjag » Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 7:03 PM UTC

hal9000xp wrote: post #36

ISL wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a reasonable chance that the throwaway poster intended to be divisive, whether as a troll or something more intentional.

The scary thing is that while living in Russia, I've encountered many people with similar views (face to face). I know it's hard to believe for western people but there are lots of people in Russia who completely obsessed with ideas of "unique Russian identity", "God chosen nation", "Russian world", "saint Russia vs. soulless American imperialism" etc. Putin understands feelings of this part of society and successful…

I encounter plenty such people among Russian migrants too. Really dig Putin and want Russia to be a GULag zoo for their former compatriots.

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#64

Post by splatzone » Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 7:06 PM UTC

codedokode wrote: post #48

Telegram invented a smart thing to evade blocking. They made a proxy server and allowed the person hosting it to add a promo link for every user connecting through this server. This way Telegram channel owners are motivated to host such proxy servers and distribute their addresses so that their channel gets promoted for users of this server (and they get more readers and more profit). So even if hosting providers lik…

Do you have a link for more information about their proxy server? I've struggled to find anything. Thanks!

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#65

Post by vbezhenar » Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 7:08 PM UTC

codedokode wrote: post #50

xnyanta wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>domain fronting [...] has become one tool to evade SNI-based attacks. Unfortunately, most major CDNs like Google and Amazon have stopped offering domain fronting capabilities. I think Azure is one of the major services that stills supports it however.

If they would not stop this they could be blocked in Russia completely (because Russian authorities started banning whole networks where Telegram servers or proxies were found).

Microsoft is known to cooperate with governments. I'm sure that they'll stop domain fronting if asked.

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#66

Post by nradov » Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 7:09 PM UTC

azangru wrote: post #23

I am Russian, and I do not use Telegram, I and do not really know the technology that it relies on, so my opinion is probably worthless, but I can't get rid of the feeling that if Telegram just left the scene quietly and peacefully when the Russian authorities announced the ban, things would have been much simpler and yes, better. The authorities would have pretended that their mission had been accomplished. People w…

Someone must have the moral courage to force the issue regardless of consequences. The situation will have to get worse before it can get better.

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#67

Post by ZoomZoomZoom » Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 7:10 PM UTC

ex3ndr wrote: post #61

ZoomZoomZoom wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> a lot of Russians use Telegram because of that. This is a big overstatement. Telegram received an initial traction from the vk.com userbase. It has very little to do with either the functionality (except may be the channels) or an ideological stance of he creators. VK simply advertised the messenger actively at launch. Practically all other IMs (except the earlier WhatsApp and Viber) have almost no userbase in Rus…

Nope, initial traction came not from VK. Source: I worked at Telegram since it's launch.

Where did it come from? Any stats? Pure interest.

By the way, how do you exactly know where the user got to know about your service, and, specifically, that this spread didn't involve VK?

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#68

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 7:12 PM UTC

sebleon wrote: post #59

gerhardi wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh my god.. So you really think that a totalitarian control over what the country's population is allowed to view on the Internet is somehow a good thing and a way to stop brain drain? How come other countries manage to have their cultures flourish on the age of the Internet? I just can't see this kind of blocking bringing anything good for Russia..

I'm surprised more countries don't block Google and Facebook. These two sites are extremely powerful in their ability to shape public opinion, hard to imagine why so many governments are letting American corporations shape citizens' minds.

[deleted]

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#69

Post by aaomidi » Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 7:15 PM UTC

amaccuish wrote: post #52

aaomidi wrote: post #27

This just further shows the need for encrypted SNI fields for TLS 1.3. We need to hide services properly and make the cost of blocking a single service very expensive.

Telegram doesn't use TLS.

They would if it provided more censorship avoidance.

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#70

Post by ex3ndr » Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 7:22 PM UTC

ZoomZoomZoom wrote: post #67

ex3ndr wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, initial traction came not from VK. Source: I worked at Telegram since it's launch.

Where did it come from? Any stats? Pure interest. By the way, how do you exactly know where the user got to know about your service, and, specifically, that this spread didn't involve VK?

Not sure that it will be ethically correct to share some internals of the Telegram company.

Initial source was never VK and Russia. Russians is ~1% of Telegram userbase or something like this.

How? By the number signups with russian phone numbers.