Not sure about it but why do they want to establish a union? History teaches us that trade unions are mafia-like structures. The cure that is much worse than the desease.
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Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing
61–70 of 109 posts
Re: Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing
#62Not sure about it but why do they want to establish a union? History teaches us that trade unions are mafia-like structures. The cure that is much worse than the desease.
> History teaches us that trade unions are mafia-like structures.
Not the history that I learned. That's the kind of quip you get off of libertarian blogs. The real world labor movement was just a wee bit more nuanced and important. We're literally about to celebrate Labor Day for a reason that doesn't have much to do with "mafia-like structures".
Re: Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
Bribe a guard, install a hardware keylogger on random workstation, steal corporate login password, and go from there.
And grab any U2F security keys in sight.
A missing U2F key might trigger an audit which could lead to discovery of the keylogger. Better bet would be to get the passwords, and then come back and register a second U2F key to the victims account.
Re: Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
Physical access is always the single most important aspect of your security stance. There is almost no technical safeguard that will stop someone with physical access and time.
I don't think big companies allow employees to have the crown jewels on their co issued devices. They would have to remote into something even they don't have physical security access into.
> They would have to remote into something even they don't have physical security access into.
Which they do from their... "co issued devices". And in the days of keys over passwords being standard practice (but 2FA not yet), pwning a worker's device can be very useful even if all the real targets are on remote servers.
Re: Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
What tangible benefits would the average tech worker get? What benefits would a FAANGer get? Not surprisingly I work in tech. I'm not morally opposed to unions - I just don't see how they would make my life any better.
Remember that time that most of FAANG and others were involved in a wage fixing scheme and we're fined way less than they profited from the scheme? Just because you're paid well compared to other sectors doesn't mean that you're being properly compensated.
Yes, and I even got a check for hundreds(!) of dollars because of it. How would a union have prevented that?
Re: Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing
#66A little bit of a tangent, but, > Earlier this month, after five years of organizing, security officers for companies including Facebook, Google, and Genentech, many of whom were making between $12 and $14 an hour, ratified their first union contract. They won wage increases of up to $1.20 per hour, better health care, and, for the first time, paid holidays. How is this rational? Do Facebook and Google believe they a…
What’s rational is that people are accepting positions at those pay rates. If you don’t want $12 per hour, go somewhere willing to pay more — even fast food pays more than that in the Bay Area. Entry level at Target pays over $15. They don’t need a union, they just need to quit and go work somewhere else. No shortages of jobs in the Bay Area— essentially everyone is hiring right now. Why should the company be blamed…
> They don’t need a union, they just need to quit and go work somewhere else.
Not easy if you live paycheck-to-paycheck, which most such people do. Can't afford the time it takes to find a better-paying job, or more likely, retrain before searching for such a job.
Re: Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing
#67I'm firmly convinced that tech workers will come around to unionizing once they accidentally reinvent it under a different name
What tangible benefits would the average tech worker get? What benefits would a FAANGer get? Not surprisingly I work in tech. I'm not morally opposed to unions - I just don't see how they would make my life any better.
I don't know about FAANG but definitely needed for small startups where exploitation is very real. For example, your manager should not be allowed to contact you in the middle of the night to discuss work. You should not have to come in over the weekend because you are afraid to get fired. You also should be able to negotiate better conditions in lieu of the "startup haircut" pay.
Of course this doesn't apply to well run startups with good leaders, but the truth is in my experience, they are rare and few.
The whole industry could benefit, much like the men who worked under American tycoons of the 18th century in steel mills, oil fields and other shitty conditions, software engineering is engineering period.
Just because you can't hold and physically touch the output from software engineers doesn't mean that it's somehow less demanding or not deserving of the same unionization that other laborers/engineers have access to.
Re: Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing
#68I'm firmly convinced that tech workers will come around to unionizing once they accidentally reinvent it under a different name
Personal anecdata: every company I've worked at would have been worse off (and worse to work at) if the developers had been unionized.
I've also avoided working anywhere that thinks you can only be professional if you're wearing a button down shirt and / or a tie, so I don't doubt that some places might benefit.
Edit: to be clear, I've never advocated for a union, and I doubt I ever will so long as I am fortunate enough to choose my employer, rather than the other way around. This is why, I am guessing, so many tech workers don't bother attempting to unionize.
Re: Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
Those folks do physical security. Aside from access to buildings and stuff they have access to little else, plus they have supervisors and people at the company who supervise them, plus doing weird things will trigger alerts and stuff, so I don't think they can do a lot beside ignore alarms for an intruder who would not have access to digital assets. Plus, NDAs are pretty powerful tools. I mean, if a guard lets you i…
What about getting into a data center and causing a service disruption by physically destroying equipment?
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Re: Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
Won't unions level out pay contrary to disparities in talent?
I think you're referring to the fossilized rigidity I intended to reject in my last two sentences. A rigid pay scale is merely common in US unionism, not required. Also, be careful not to confuse talent with performance. A slacker with amazing talent can still underperform whoever works diligently to improve and apply their skills.
As with other situations such as the insistence on face-time rather than embracing remote work, "unions are bad" is a truism in the tech industry, and a weird selective attitude towards disruption. Can't we build a better union? Why can't traditional labor dynamics be disrupted, in a way that benefits workers? The rise of the sharing economy proves that the opposite is possible.