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A Kindergartener’s Best Computer Is About to Die

kickscondor.com

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Re: A Kindergartener’s Best Computer Is About to Die

#61

Post by mcphage »

kumarm wrote: post #10

[Chromebooks are the new fashion in elementary school. They are cheap; they are everywhere. And they are unusable by kids in kindergarten through, in some case, third grade.] iPad's are consumer devices and will not prepare our kids to be producers. I am surprised every time I see iPad's being used in schools. Chromebooks at least put kids in path of being producers rather than mere consumers of content.

> iPad's are consumer devices and will not prepare our kids to be producers.

This was a tired and false talking point five years ago; why is it still being regurgitated as if it were true?

Re: A Kindergartener’s Best Computer Is About to Die

#62

Post by lemming »

briandear wrote: post #32
mastazi wrote: post #8

Since OP seems to be keeping an eye on this thread, I'll ask here: have you considered using other tablets (Samsung etc.)? In case you did, and it didn't work as well as the iPad: what makes the iPad the ideal device in kindergarten? Construction quality? Software/Apps?

This is Apple’s marketing so obviously it’s biased, but here: https://www.apple.com/education/products/ How good is augmented reality on generic tablets? ..just as one example. Many people criticizing iPads haven’t used them for education recently or haven’t been trained on how to fully leverage the tech effectively. The curriculum assistance, available (quality) apps and overall device versatily are unmatched by com…

Say I'm sceptical about this but willing to be convinced. Are there good resources about the apps etc I should be looking at, or descriptions of how to use the iPad effectively for education that I could check out? The Apple page you linked to has some amazing looking things but is basically marketing blurb, as you point out.

Re: A Kindergartener’s Best Computer Is About to Die

#63

Post by kickscondor »

mastazi wrote: post #8

Since OP seems to be keeping an eye on this thread, I'll ask here: have you considered using other tablets (Samsung etc.)? In case you did, and it didn't work as well as the iPad: what makes the iPad the ideal device in kindergarten? Construction quality? Software/Apps?

I couldn't convince the school to buy other tablets - and I started to wonder why I was pressing it. I entered teaching from the programming world (avid Linux user here) and I guess I saw Android as synonymous with Linux. Now I just see it as synonymous with Google - and Chromebook quality and software hasn't won me over.

There is a stigma among edtechs (the IT of education) in my area that Android doesn't have the management tools they need - for provisioning software, propagating device settings and such. Presumably that's wrong - (?) - but I also don't know which tablets to recommend, there are too many to try and a teacher can't deal with a flaky device. You have too many students.

Rather than trying to solve that stigma, I am trying to work through the (level 1) discussion of: should we be giving laptops to kindergarteners? (Not talking about anyone here's kindergartener - but those with backgrounds like I see at public school.)

The iPad may not be better - but it works and has less friction to adoption. I'll try to win the battles that I can win. Thanks for the question! I appreciate it.

Re: A Kindergartener’s Best Computer Is About to Die

#64

Post by kickscondor »

keithnz wrote: post #30

Tablets aren't going away? Just one product is getting end of lifed and you liked that product and are miffy about it? ok, fine.... but the aritcle seems to try to paint a picture that it was the one and only true device and now kindergarenters are doomed :)

This iPad hasn't seen an update since 2015. The standard iPad is now being marketed to schools at the $299 price. No, it's not gone - which is why I thought to write this article, as an attempt to see the usefulness of this specific model and size.

I agree that I'm being a bit hyperbolic - but it's not just that I like the product. It works _very_ well for a specific audience - K-2. Thought it was worth mentioning.

Re: A Kindergartener’s Best Computer Is About to Die

#65

Post by kickscondor »

etatoby wrote: post #51
jacobolus wrote: post #3

This post doesn’t really explain what is so great about iPads for small children, and as far as I can tell doesn’t link to much external explanation about it. Maybe the author had some previous posts explaining this that regular blog readers know about as context? Is there some report [anecdotal, peer-reviewed, whatever] comparing kids’ trying to learn using an iPad vs. physical materials? What specific ideas or subj…

I will add another couple of points. In kindergarten (many decades ago) sometimes we were given individual assignments, such as sticking figures in the right place, coloring things, basic counting... But other times we were forced to interact with our peers and "play together." As someone who has always struggled to interact with other people, and who had not met any other kids before/except in kindergarten, I think…

> I still struggle with people as an adult, but I think I would be worse off had I spent that time in front of a screen.

I will say that one of the things that makes a tablet so great is the potential for group activities. I do a ton of whole-class activities with lots of interaction - and it is possible on a tablet because it is small enough to be easy to look past. This is an issue with desktops (esp. in a lab) and, to some degree, with laptops.

Just today we did an activity where all the kids 'drew' a visualization of a certain math problem and then we passed the tablets around and added on top off them and then I showed the results on the projector. There was laughter, story-telling, kids helping each other, moving around the classroom, you name it.

The fact that you can get up and walk around with a tablet is a point I hadn't mentioned. Thank you for the stimulus!

Re: A Kindergartener’s Best Computer Is About to Die

#66

Post by kickscondor »

Merrill wrote: post #44

There are Chromebooks with touchscreens available from several manufacturers. There are also touchscreen laptops - I use a Lenovo Windows 10 touchscreen laptop every day.

I have tested these out in class and they've been pretty good - the 'gorilla arms' thing that's out there doesn't apply to children it seems.

Re: A Kindergartener’s Best Computer Is About to Die

#67

Post by kickscondor »

tylerchilds wrote: post #9

What about plugging a mouse into the Chromebooks? I distinctly remember being in kindergarten and using a mouse as my pointer input. I played Treasure Mountain! and some other educational games. Kids are pretty capable and adept at picking up new things. We should be pushing forward with tech literacy while they're still young and not afraid of breaking technology. Touch screens are great because they provided a very…

Certainly kids are good at picking things up! In fact, they do pick up Chromebooks - but it is a painful experience for the early education groups I'm talking about (K-2) because they often don't read well enough yet. (I'm in public school.) And knowing letters really helps keyboarding.

Part of what I'm trying to contest is this elitism of laptop over tablet. My kids can do group activities with a tablet - carry it with them to the carpet, draw things, pass them back and forth, create things with gestures, film each other. The form factor is amazing. And, yeah, then they can learn laptops in third or fourth grade - isn't that feasible?

I'm definitely glad you played Treasure Mountain! when you were a kid. Thankyou for the comment!

Re: A Kindergartener’s Best Computer Is About to Die

#68

Post by kickscondor »

kumarm wrote: post #10

[Chromebooks are the new fashion in elementary school. They are cheap; they are everywhere. And they are unusable by kids in kindergarten through, in some case, third grade.] iPad's are consumer devices and will not prepare our kids to be producers. I am surprised every time I see iPad's being used in schools. Chromebooks at least put kids in path of being producers rather than mere consumers of content.

My kids make movies, animations, record themselves telling stories, build 3-D models, script things (using Scratch Jr. - which is totally underwhelming to a programmer, but is fantastic for this age group).

No, they don't produce documents or write code or answer e-mails. But they can't read yet, so I think that's okay for now.

Re: A Kindergartener’s Best Computer Is About to Die

#69

Post by flukus »

lostgame wrote: post #28
kumarm wrote: post #10

[Chromebooks are the new fashion in elementary school. They are cheap; they are everywhere. And they are unusable by kids in kindergarten through, in some case, third grade.] iPad's are consumer devices and will not prepare our kids to be producers. I am surprised every time I see iPad's being used in schools. Chromebooks at least put kids in path of being producers rather than mere consumers of content.

I am getting tired of hearing that the iPad is 'not for producers.' I was way up there with you right up until I wrote the majority of my upcoming solo hip-hop record in Garageband with Audio Units on my iPad mini, with an AKAI MDP32 as my external MIDI device and an Apogee sound card for insane-quality audio. Then, due to the amazing workflow, I was able to take those tracks into Logic Pro and refine the hell of out…

The question isn't "can I produce stuff on an iPad" it's "is this the right tool for the job", human ingenuity being what it is. Take the average $1000 phone and for most producers it's a worse tool than a $100 laptop.

> I wrote the 32-page business plan for my music label almost entirely on Pages with a bluetooth keyboard. Kids can do the same for schoolwork.

I would argue that if you need a third party add-on that changes the primary input method you've essentially turned the device into a laptop/chromebook. It's not the right tool for the job, you've just turned it into one.

Re: A Kindergartener’s Best Computer Is About to Die

#70

Post by kickscondor »

athenot wrote: post #42
kickscondor wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cover this a bit in my reply to Eli. https://www.kickscondor.com/2018/08/28/caution-chromebooks/ I agree that there should be a limit (and have practiced this in my classes) but there are some incredible uses of touchscreens that I can't ignore.

What kind of incredible uses? I'm genuinely curious as I've delayed introducing tablets and computers to my kids until they can do something creative with them.

I mentioned this example elsewhere in this thread, so I'll just repeat it here:

> Just today we did an activity where all the kids 'drew' a visualization of a certain math problem and then we passed the tablets around and added on top off them and then I showed the results on the projector. There was laughter, story-telling, kids helping each other, moving around the classroom, you name it.

I do group activities that involve creating things together that explore the topic. (I look at technology not as a 'subject' but as a 'language' or 'medium'.) So, at home, rather than finding an educational app for them, I would recommend giving them a tablet so they can film the things they experience. Things they see in the backyard or things they make. They can record themselves explaining a topic they learned about. Have them make music (the byte.co Music Maker app is a good one for a child who has no experience with it) and have them mess with vector-drawing or 3-D modeling apps. Then talk to them about what they made and help them get to the next level. The tablet is the 'medium' and you are the 'scaffold'. They need you to find out where to go next.

And, yeah, put the tablets away half the time so they can experience things directly. (Sounds like this is perhaps where your concern lies.)

I've also had great success with Twine once they can read.

Thanks for the great question! I hope this helps. It's really cool that you asked.

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