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I know why rejection emails suck – I write them

triplebyte.com

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Re: I know why rejection emails suck – I write them

#61

Post by wpietri »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #16
dep_b wrote: post #14

Getting rejected at Triplebyte was actually a pretty good investment time wise. Guess the whole thing costed me three hours in total and I got quite a list of things to improve and how. It was clear it was tailored towards the interview not just a larger generic mail. There are tons of companies that give you a generic email after you completed an IQ test, a questionary, open questions and of course the 8hours+ homew…

> "Try again in three months" > Why? I wouldn't do anything different. But they will. The interview process is stochastic; exactly the same performance from you will lead to different results on different attempts. > Getting rejected at Triplebyte was actually a pretty good investment time wise. Guess the whole thing costed me three hours in total and I got quite a list of things to improve and how. It was clear it w…

> But they will. The interview process is stochastic; exactly the same performance from you will lead to different results on different attempts.

I agree that's in practice true for many places. But I hope companies have the good sense to be too embarrassed to admit that their inability to be consistent is the reason to reapply.

I think the traditional reason for the "try again in three months" bit is that paper-based processes make it hard to find and re-contact promising candidates who didn't happen to make the grade this time. But if any place really thinks, "We won't hire this developer now but they would be good in the future," I think a much better solution is for the hiring company to make a list of people to re-contact next time they're hiring.

Re: I know why rejection emails suck – I write them

#62

Post by FLUX-YOU »

wdewind wrote: post #51
tptacek wrote: post #40

When someone can’t answer an interview question about relational databases, it might be that they don’t know anything about relational databases. I thought you all were better than this. Why are you asking questions about relational databases? Why not just have candidates accomplish the thing you're assessing with an actual relational database ? I know you're work-sample-literate! But if your feedback emphasizes comm…

Isn't a lot of the job of software engineering to quickly and concisely communicate complicated concepts? Might this actually be an accurate work sample? How else might you measure something like this? Also the next few lines kinda address what you are saying: > It also might be that they know them inside-and-out but aren’t used to answering questions on the fly, or that our question didn’t use the vocabulary they’re…

>Isn't a lot of the job of software engineering to quickly and concisely communicate complicated concepts?

No, I write code daily but I might have to distill down technical concepts once a week or so (usually not even that much) and even then if I happen to be the only one who can distill it down.

If your devs are often explaining basic stuff like 'what is a relational database?', you need to hire someone specifically to do that. It's not a good use of time especially when they can go google/wikipedia those concepts and figure it out themselves.

Re: I know why rejection emails suck – I write them

#63

Post by ransom1538 »

tptacek wrote: post #40

When someone can’t answer an interview question about relational databases, it might be that they don’t know anything about relational databases. I thought you all were better than this. Why are you asking questions about relational databases? Why not just have candidates accomplish the thing you're assessing with an actual relational database ? I know you're work-sample-literate! But if your feedback emphasizes comm…

I have been doing mysql database type things for 15 years solid. Once during a job interview at digg.com, someone [ok ok doxx removed] asked: "what is a having statement in sql?". I jumped in explained how you can filter aggregated sets performed by a 'group by' and rambled on and on. He stopped me and said, "You can use a having statement without a group by, are you sure you know how they work." I have never seen this or done this in practice, so I just stood there stumped. He rolled his eyes and ended the interview. 4 hours of an amazing interview going well: ruined. At least this guy went on to ruin digg.com. "Let's just re-write everything over again better" kinda guy.

Re: I know why rejection emails suck – I write them

#64

Post by chrisseaton »

tptacek wrote: post #40

When someone can’t answer an interview question about relational databases, it might be that they don’t know anything about relational databases. I thought you all were better than this. Why are you asking questions about relational databases? Why not just have candidates accomplish the thing you're assessing with an actual relational database ? I know you're work-sample-literate! But if your feedback emphasizes comm…

Imagine a junior developer asking your senior developer a question about how a relational database does something.

There you go, now it's a work-sample for your senior developer.

Re: I know why rejection emails suck – I write them

#65

Post by britch »

Insanity wrote: post #3

At least you get a response even if it is a rejection letter. I have heard - not experienced - that sometimes you just don't hear back from the company at all, which seems worse to me.

I once got a rejection from a company six months after I interviewed on site. I'm not sure if that's better or worse than hearing nothing at all

Re: I know why rejection emails suck – I write them

#67

Post by minimaxir »

ransom1538 wrote: post #63
tptacek wrote: post #40

When someone can’t answer an interview question about relational databases, it might be that they don’t know anything about relational databases. I thought you all were better than this. Why are you asking questions about relational databases? Why not just have candidates accomplish the thing you're assessing with an actual relational database ? I know you're work-sample-literate! But if your feedback emphasizes comm…

I have been doing mysql database type things for 15 years solid. Once during a job interview at digg.com, someone [ok ok doxx removed] asked: "what is a having statement in sql?". I jumped in explained how you can filter aggregated sets performed by a 'group by' and rambled on and on. He stopped me and said, "You can use a having statement without a group by, are you sure you know how they work." I have never seen th…

[No longer applicable]

Re: I know why rejection emails suck – I write them

#68

Post by nosseo »

FLUX-YOU wrote: post #62
wdewind wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't a lot of the job of software engineering to quickly and concisely communicate complicated concepts? Might this actually be an accurate work sample? How else might you measure something like this? Also the next few lines kinda address what you are saying: > It also might be that they know them inside-and-out but aren’t used to answering questions on the fly, or that our question didn’t use the vocabulary they’re…

>Isn't a lot of the job of software engineering to quickly and concisely communicate complicated concepts? No, I write code daily but I might have to distill down technical concepts once a week or so (usually not even that much) and even then if I happen to be the only one who can distill it down. If your devs are often explaining basic stuff like 'what is a relational database?', you need to hire someone specificall…

To be clear, we don't ask candidates 'what is a relational database', and I'm totally in agreement that that's a weak interview question.

Re: I know why rejection emails suck – I write them

#69

Post by kenjackson »

The other reason specificity is a legal issue is that it provides data that can be disputed. For example, if you reject someone black and say the reason they were rejected because hey didn’t get far enough in the coding test — you’d better not hire the white guy who only got just as far (which might happen for a variety of reasons).

It’s almost the same reason you stay quiet when held by police. Even something seemingly innocuous may end being used against you in the future.

Re: I know why rejection emails suck – I write them

#70

Post by werbel »

If you/your company doesn't have a policy of sending personal feedback please consider doing this at least for junior people. Volunteer your after work time if needed.

Trying to find the first job is extremely stressful process. A junior person has no notion of his worth on the market. Each rejection even if only by a lack of any response ("I'm sorry, I'm afraid we are looking for a bit more experienced person" would suffice) can be like a kick on the face when you're just barely learning to walk and most likely is a burned bridge.

I've mentored my girlfriend for 3 years from almost 0 to getting her first job in a company run by a React Native core developer. She had the skill, great attitude, really solid work ethic and very analytical thinking. It'd trust her more with any task than significant number of my past and current senior coworkers. It's hard to prove and no one expects that so naturally her applications had been ignored or rejected. With each one I saw her confidence, self-esteem and enthusiasm crumb. With each positive reply/invitation she was invigorated until the next step came. I'm pretty sure for some the roller-coaster or even worse, being rejected over and over again can be a life defining experience.

Any reply is great, personal is even better. If you spend time describing what was missing from the expectations of your company (don't say "You don't know enough", say "We need someone with more knowledge") and sincerely wish the person well you can be sure they'll be grateful, remember you, work on the gaps and who knows... maybe some day become part of your team.

Please feel free to reach out if you want some example for inspiration.

Edit: Please don't do that against the policy of your company. But if there are no reasons against just ask if you could provide some feedback and resources for the rejection letter.

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