My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016) • Hacker News Board

Re: My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

#61

Post by jen729w » Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 7:44 AM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #58

ajmurmann wrote: post #47

This is of course in no way representative. If you are a software developer in SF you get very quickly to $140k+. That guy in the closet was probably stashing way North of $60k annually, not counting equity. Do this for 7-10 years and you can retire silver else and are probably in your early 30s. If you work at FAANG you can easily take home way North of $200k. No reason to rent a illegal closet at that point unless…

>>That guy in the closet was probably stashing way North of $60k annually, not counting equity. Do this for 7-10 years and you can retire silver else and are probably in your early 30s. Retire with $750k (assuming stock market gains over that 10 years)? Man, I don’t know many people who can do that, at least not in the US. Don’t get me wrong, it gets you out of the “work or starve” level, but it’s also not exactly “I…

...and now you're a 30-year-old rich guy with no mates who knew nothing of his 20s. No thanks.

Re: My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

#62

Post by nikanj » Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 8:16 AM UTC

jen729w wrote: post #61

enraged_camel wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>That guy in the closet was probably stashing way North of $60k annually, not counting equity. Do this for 7-10 years and you can retire silver else and are probably in your early 30s. Retire with $750k (assuming stock market gains over that 10 years)? Man, I don’t know many people who can do that, at least not in the US. Don’t get me wrong, it gets you out of the “work or starve” level, but it’s also not exactly “I…

...and now you're a 30-year-old rich guy with no mates who knew nothing of his 20s. No thanks.

There's mountains of broke 30-year olds with no mates who did nothing in their 20s.

We try to maintain a false dichotomy where the alternative to working extremely hard is partying, travelling the world, and of course tons of sex.

Most people don't do either.

Re: My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

#63

Post by bor0 » Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 8:17 AM UTC

physcab wrote: post #22

This really is only one small segment of the programming population. I really hate superficial shit like this that paints tech workers in a bad light bc most have ordinary jobs and live ordinary lives and aren’t social recluses. I work typical 9-5, wife and kids. We go grocery shopping and make dinner every night together. We live very modestly and we have lots of non-tech friends and family. It’s literaly nothing sp…

I also have a job, wife, kids, house, non-tech friends. However, at one point in my life I lived a very "closed" life, sitting in my room by myself and self-learning stuff (hacking Delphi/Pascal, then some Assembly x86, then C). It was definitely fun at the time.

Re: My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

#64

Post by TomMckenny » Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 8:21 AM UTC

dman wrote: post #7

Is this fairly common in the valley?

It is not unusual.

Just to be clear, typically you will never own a home and you will be lucky to have an apartment to yourself. And you will likely be unemployable after 35 or 40 so you better get that mortgage quick and it better not be 30 years.

This site obviously has a survivor bias toward success stories. But of the 7 software people I know who are still in the bay area, only 1 still has work. The others live of the considerable income from renting their packed homes. In places like Alameda, Richmond, Oakland and Concord even. So the ratio of packed renters to home homeowners is obviously much higher than 1:1

And I think we can safely assume the housing cost to wage ratio will be even higher next.

Re: My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

#65

Post by growthexecutive » Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 8:31 AM UTC

Sorry to be harsh but the author is a naive idiot. He correctly mentions that 12-week coding boot camps are ubiquitous, so why then did he chose to move to one of the most unaffordable cities in the world? San Francisco is not the only place you can land a programming job. In fact your life as a programmer both in work and outside of work will probably be better in most other cities in the US (or around the world).

I'm a programmer myself and I've worked in the UK and Germany, both in startups and large companies, and I've never known anybody who's worked more than a 40 hour week and certainly don't know any coders who had to live in victorian workhouse style accommodation like this guy did. And many of my colleagues have been self taught with no university degree.

Re: My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

#66

Post by paulie_a » Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 8:44 AM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #56

bonniemuffin wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We call it a "boomerang" where I work, and it's not a sign of failure-- it's something we celebrate. We get a lot of boomerangs who leave for a year or two and then come back to work with us again. It's the highest form of flattery when they like us so much they come back. :)

My previous company hated it. The leaders perceived those who leave as disloyal and always felt deeply insulted whenever someone left. For instance, I run into them at conferences every year and they don’t even acknowledge my presence, even though I was on really good terms with them when I worked there. It’s pretty bizarre.

The leaders of that company set up a shitty culture that is not going to create an loyalty. It's honestly not surprising that their is a childish banishment mentality after you left.

If a leader feels insulted because a person left it was for the best that person left. That company needs to fire the leaders as it will only end up with a very toxic culture.

Re: My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

#67

Post by QML » Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 8:45 AM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #35

dhnsmakala wrote: post #33

I call bushit on this story. This article is greatly exaggerated to grab your attention. $1.4k for a closet in an Airbnb with 13 people, where you don't get a key and have to sneak in? Heh. I have found a large room in a newer complex through a company pairing roommates in just a few days. It was $1800. Heck, you could pay $1k for a room in Berkely or Oakland and commute in by Bart.

There are $1k rooms in Berkeley?

Yeah you can find singles for 1k, just make sure you get housemates to share the cost of living space and kitchen.

Re: My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

#68

Post by noir_lord » Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 8:47 AM UTC

themoat wrote: post #2

I know the author wised up and moved on, but I would rather work construction for the rest of my life than be a programmer and live like this. I worked for a startup for a couple of years that really got it right. The CTO really wanted a certain lead developer as his first hire (they had previously worked together) and the lead dev said (paraphrased, of course) "Nope. Not interested in working more than 40 hours per…

If you want the 40 hours and treat like a human not a code producing robot I found the best way is to work as a techie for a none-tech company.

I handle the internal ERP and related software (android terminals, sandblast machines etc)

I get to work on varied problems in multiple languages where my contribution is immediately visible and then go home at 5pm.

It's glorious, I'll give up programming as a career rather than go back to 60hr+ weeks.

Re: My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

#69

Post by eaenki » Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 8:50 AM UTC

I think this article represents a small segment of people that can’t manage their finances and/or strive for better living conditions .

Even at with the base rate of $100k/year - which is cheap, you can rent a beautiful $5k/m apartment and split it with a friend. Heck, you can even cook and eat organic only. Use Uber to move around. Even then, at “maximum living conditions” you should be able to save north of $50k/y. There’s countless beautiful Airbnbs at the same price in case you can only rent short-term. Also, you either choose a corporate job or something you love. You can’t work 15h/day on something you don’t love.

All in all, this article it’s halfway BS, halfway poor management of one’s own living conditions and financials

Re: My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

#70

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 9:02 AM UTC

indecisive_user wrote: post #18

gumby wrote: post #17

This part struck me as so sad: > Programming for me was never supposed to be more than a means to an end Programming is one of my favorite things to do and I do it even when my job is something else. Why do it if you don't like it? No wonder it seemed hopeless.

>Why do it if you don't like it? Uhh, because it pays well, has good job security and benefits, doesn't require multiple degrees, is respected socially, isn't physically intensive, etc. etc. Most all of my non-programmer friends don't really like their jobs all that much, so if you're not passionate about anything else, my question is why not go into software development?

[deleted]