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Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

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Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#61

Post by codesuki »

bojo wrote: post #33
propman wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I ask you a few questions, if you don’t mind. Are you fluent in Japanese? Have there been any major instances of discrimination at work? I know you’ve been there 10 years, but is this a place you’d be happy for the rest of your life to start a family and potentially retire? Please ignore if any of these are too uncomfortable or invasive.

Not the parent but same situation. Been here 11 years. A lot of people can get around without speaking Japanese, but I don’t recommend it. You’ll get a much more meaningful and deeper experience out of living here if you can converse with everyone. Randomly stopping and bullshitting with a bored old guy for an hour can be quite fun! Sadly the developer pay here is pretty dismal, even more so if you come with US expec…

In case you stay in Japan contact me. Where I work it's no problem to take several weeks off. Otherwise we have a good work climate, too.

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#62

Post by lmiller1990 »

codesuki wrote: post #60
lmiller1990 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's nuts, I have 4 yoe and only on like ¥5M. Like a parent comment stated I am content with low pay and carrying an entire team with several years exp on me, though. You don't come to Japan for the money, or at least I didn't. Good to hear you found a well paying org (I hope you can get the chance to use and learn Japanese there as well).

Where do you work at?

30-50 ppl size org. branu.jp

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#64

Post by lmiller1990 »

devilsbabe wrote: post #58
lmiller1990 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's nuts, I have 4 yoe and only on like ¥5M. Like a parent comment stated I am content with low pay and carrying an entire team with several years exp on me, though. You don't come to Japan for the money, or at least I didn't. Good to hear you found a well paying org (I hope you can get the chance to use and learn Japanese there as well).

Unfortunately I speak mostly English all day. I'll speak Japanese when interacting with a Japanese colleague directly but everything else is in English. I have to work actively to improve my language skills. I'm glad to hear you're happy but I hope you try to move to a company that will pay you what you're worth. For a software engineer and team leader, that's way more than ¥5M.

Yeah. It’s a fairly small and young company (5ish years) so I knew I’d be taking a paydrop but I think the experience and Japanese practice was worth it! There are tons of tech events you can use Japanese at, try finding them on compass.com. As long as you turn up and try to speak amd socialize you’ll find your Japanese improving rapidly.

Glad you found a good position with a solid salary! Good engineers who speak English and Japanese are hard to come by, get your languages skills up a hit and you’ll be able to work anywhere you want.

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#65

Post by jimmywanger »

sofon wrote: post #42
jimmywanger wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about quantitatively worse. But if you look here, a UN rep stated that Japanese racism "primarily affects three groups: national minorities, descendants of former Japanese colonies, and foreigners from other Asian countries"[0]. He also said that racism was "deep and profound." This was in 2005. We're (United States) still trying to get rid of racism, even after the civil rights movement of 1950. Racism…

ok, so... no data then, just a series of quotes and observations about individuals. I'd honestly be interested in learning about racism in Japan, and if it is different/worse than other countries. But all that's been presented is anecdotes.

I cited wikipedia and a UN observer. What else do you want as data? Survey data? Who would answer a survey asking if you were racist, specifically if you're racist towards certain ethnic groups? What are you realistically asking for that will change your mind?

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#66

Post by anjc »

Any non-Japanese person who wants to work there should think long and hard, and give it a trial first. Poor pay, strong work culture, stifling weather and crazy weather events for much of the year...it's no paradise. You'll frequently see things happen which are downright illegal in the Western world. For example, being explicitly denied service because you're not Japanese. You might not see these things as a tourist but live there and you'll see it.

It's sad that some introverted/vulnerable people seem to gravitate towards Japanese culture. If the Japanese themselves have a tough time in their own society then why do outsiders expect to fare any better.

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#67

Post by jimmywanger »

dbjh wrote: post #44
mrpopo wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the very article you are citing : March 1, 2007: Prime Minister Shinzō Abe stated in a newspaper article that there was no evidence that the Japanese government had kept sex slaves, even though the Japanese government had already admitted the use of brothels in 1993.

Your quote doesn't invalidate anything I wrote. My response proved jimmywanger's claim "no attempt to rectify the situation has been made by the government" to be false. Also note how he moved the goalposts. In his original post he talks about how Koreans are oppressed, while in the second post he changed it to have been oppressed in the past . I have no interest in discussing the definition of "slave". I do find it…

> I do find it irritating he brought up WW2 within 2 hours after the article was posted, just because it was about Japan. I get the impression he just wanted to use the opportunity to bad-mouth Japan.

Trying to read somebody's motives (who you have never met) is mostly incorrect. Japanese people in Japan are incredibly racist towards other Asian people. And the Japanese government is backpedaling and still visits a shrine with convicted war criminals celebrated as casualties.

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#68

Post by nguyenthanhloc »

latchkey wrote: post #56
nguyenthanhloc wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thank you for sharing the story! I'm a Vietnamese, former marketer/founder, and currently working as a banker. Can you share with me more about your experiences in Vietnam? Could I buy you a coffee, sometimes?

Yes, of course! Contact me offline. =)

nice. I'll contact you by email then?

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#69

Post by bojo »

codesuki wrote: post #61
bojo wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the parent but same situation. Been here 11 years. A lot of people can get around without speaking Japanese, but I don’t recommend it. You’ll get a much more meaningful and deeper experience out of living here if you can converse with everyone. Randomly stopping and bullshitting with a bored old guy for an hour can be quite fun! Sadly the developer pay here is pretty dismal, even more so if you come with US expec…

In case you stay in Japan contact me. Where I work it's no problem to take several weeks off. Otherwise we have a good work climate, too.

I appreciate the offer, but I would be surprised if a Japanese company would be willing to come even remotely close to my current compensation.

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#70

Post by glandium »

anjc wrote: post #66

Any non-Japanese person who wants to work there should think long and hard, and give it a trial first. Poor pay, strong work culture, stifling weather and crazy weather events for much of the year...it's no paradise. You'll frequently see things happen which are downright illegal in the Western world. For example, being explicitly denied service because you're not Japanese. You might not see these things as a tourist…

> For example, being explicitly denied service because you're not Japanese. You might not see these things as a tourist but live there and you'll see it.

There are very few such places. I haven't seen any myself, and I don't know first-hand anyone who has seen any themselves either. The rare cases I heard about were all a shortcut made to essentially mean "can't serve people that don't speak Japanese". As in, they did actually serve foreigners that speak Japanese. Which is somehow understandable, although the form might not be appropriate.

Speaking of form, it is worth noting that when combined with poor English, the signs can be huge fails in meaning. For example "Japanese only" can mean "Japanese people only" or "Japanese language only". I'm sure there are many ways people with good intentions can end up with badly worded signs. And obviously, a foreigner seeing a badly worded sign is unlikely to tell them the sign is badly worded, keeping the status quo in place.

I've actually heard of instances of foreigners telling about signs, with the signs being replaced as a result.

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