Benzodiazepines: Our Other Prescription Drug Problem • Hacker News Board

Re: Benzodiazepines: Our Other Prescription Drug Problem

#61

Post by mrsteveman1 » Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 5:41 AM UTC

Karrot_Kream wrote: post #41

OldSchoolJohnny wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cannabis in both cases works well for a great many people.

With anxiety, cannabis has pretty mixed effects, and we haven't been able to create reliable medications derived from cannabis that help. I've seen cannabis exacerbate as much anxiety as I have seen it help.

Vaporized CBD (isolated by itself) is apparently quite effective for many people who have trouble getting to sleep because they can't stop worrying about every possible outcome of an upcoming meeting or date, or replaying stressful conversations or situations that happened days, weeks, or even 5 years ago.

The "broad spectrum" products that have multiple active components are far more variable, clearly.

Re: Benzodiazepines: Our Other Prescription Drug Problem

#62

Post by GABAthrowaway » Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 6:03 AM UTC

GABA receptor modulation is no joke. I was prescribed Xanax for panic attacks. My PC kept increasing my dosage, until I decided I had had enough. Withdrawal was nightmarish, but luckily I hadn't been using it that long (only for two weeks or so). My brain chemistry was never quite the same. I ended up looking for substitutes like Phenibut and Etizolam. With these I was addicted to the confidence they gave me in approaching women, so not quite physiological like Xanax. What finally cured my anxiety was a macrodose of LSD-25 (111-150 ug). Even then I wouldn't recommend it. Meditation is the best tool - our bodies naturally produce Anandamide. In my case, due to certain traumas, LSD-25 allowed me to see the beauty of this World and Universe once again. It is a powerful catalyst that allows one to See with clarity.

Re: Benzodiazepines: Our Other Prescription Drug Problem

#63

Post by person_of_color » Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 6:08 AM UTC

GABAthrowaway wrote: post #62

GABA receptor modulation is no joke. I was prescribed Xanax for panic attacks. My PC kept increasing my dosage, until I decided I had had enough. Withdrawal was nightmarish, but luckily I hadn't been using it that long (only for two weeks or so). My brain chemistry was never quite the same. I ended up looking for substitutes like Phenibut and Etizolam. With these I was addicted to the confidence they gave me in appro…

That's enough to trip

Re: Benzodiazepines: Our Other Prescription Drug Problem

#64

Post by penagwin » Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 6:34 AM UTC

taurath wrote: post #53

jnovek wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, I have generalized anxiety and have used clonazepam as short-term treatment for panic attacks. I would love to see psychotherapy lose the taboo it carries because it's been the most effective treatment I've had (long term). As I mentioned in another response, I think marijuana is probably promising in this area as well but it will take a long time for us to derive treatment from it.

Thats rather interesting, because the effect profile of clonazepam is that it takes longer to come into effect, and is longer lasting than, say, alprazolam, so I'd imagine it'd be worse for short-term treatment.

It still starts it's effects within an hour, and this slower "start up" time gives it less of a "rush" that people like about xanax for example.

The longer lasting part is IMO better too, I have bad anxiety (and potentially on the spectrum), and knowing that I can take .25 or .5 (I'm prescribed .5) and get through the stress of something new or any other activity without a full on panic attack helps me out a lot. Just as an example, the idea of going shopping at the mall with a new friend (I'm in college btw) is already making me anxious as I write this(And this is just an example!).

Xanax seems like it'd be less helpful if I'm going to be hanging out for a while.

Re: Benzodiazepines: Our Other Prescription Drug Problem

#65

Post by penagwin » Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 6:37 AM UTC

jnovek wrote: post #15

OldSchoolJohnny wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cannabis in both cases works well for a great many people.

Cannabis derived treatments do seem promising... someday. Imagine that marijuana is (at a minimum) federally rescheduled to schedule 2 in the US. How long will it take to research canniboid-based painkillers once drug companies can legally do so? How pong for FDA approval? It will be a long time until there is an alternative that is taken seriously by anyone other than the most progressive physicians in the realm of…

I agree with this. I'm personally rather upset that it's schedule 1, meaning it has no medical benefit whatsoever, which is clearly BS and it makes it hard to research.

Re: Benzodiazepines: Our Other Prescription Drug Problem

#66

Post by odiroot » Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 6:39 AM UTC

OldSchoolJohnny wrote: post #12

jnovek wrote: post #11

Serious question: as we make opiods and now bezos increasingly difficult to prescribe, what are the alternatives for people with chronic pain or chronic anxiety? I have friends and family members with chronic pain and, through them and their communities, have become aware of many people who use opiods on a long-term, occasional basis to manage their pain. A family member of mine who suffers from chronic migraine live…

Cannabis in both cases works well for a great many people.

Funny, I stopped smoking years ago because weed makes me anxious.

Re: Benzodiazepines: Our Other Prescription Drug Problem

#67

Post by rincebrain » Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 6:42 AM UTC

It seems like benzos, while sometimes quite powerful, can have really nasty side effects that some doctors irresponsibly don't disclose, including the rapid tolerance, rebound properties, and withdrawal in general.

It also seems that, like opiates, it can vary a lot from person to person.

I've been fortunate, and the few times I've had occasion to try taking benzos for a non-hospital interval, they didn't do anything for me - positive, negative, or otherwise, without any sort of visible withdrawal effects when we stopped.

Conversely, there are people I know who have reported nasty side effects and dependency issues rather rapidly (in my own family, even).

I really think the way to move forward and minimize this see-sawing of public opinion on necessary evil versus unnecessary tool will be gaining better insight into people's personal response profiles to these things before and after giving them the drugs, so you can try to notice "huh, that's a lot higher concentration of those metabolites than I expect, I guess they process it fast" or "well that opioid sure is lighting up the reward parts of the brain, guess they're at decent risk for addiction."

(Unfortunately, I'd speculate we're at least 20y out from anything like that being ubiquitous/useful, so ...)

Re: Benzodiazepines: Our Other Prescription Drug Problem

#68

Post by jstarfish » Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 6:42 AM UTC

Karrot_Kream wrote: post #41

OldSchoolJohnny wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cannabis in both cases works well for a great many people.

With anxiety, cannabis has pretty mixed effects, and we haven't been able to create reliable medications derived from cannabis that help. I've seen cannabis exacerbate as much anxiety as I have seen it help.

Sure, if you smoke sativa. Indica does wonders for anxiety, but until recently most people were stuck just smoking whatever they could get their hands on, even if it resulted in a bad high.

Re: Benzodiazepines: Our Other Prescription Drug Problem

#69

Post by ssijak » Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 7:16 AM UTC

person_of_color wrote: post #63

GABAthrowaway wrote: post #62

GABA receptor modulation is no joke. I was prescribed Xanax for panic attacks. My PC kept increasing my dosage, until I decided I had had enough. Withdrawal was nightmarish, but luckily I hadn't been using it that long (only for two weeks or so). My brain chemistry was never quite the same. I ended up looking for substitutes like Phenibut and Etizolam. With these I was addicted to the confidence they gave me in appro…

That's enough to trip

That is why he called it MACROdose and not MICROdose.

Re: Benzodiazepines: Our Other Prescription Drug Problem

#70

Post by alkonaut » Tue, Aug 21, 2018, 7:17 AM UTC

jnovek wrote: post #11

Serious question: as we make opiods and now bezos increasingly difficult to prescribe, what are the alternatives for people with chronic pain or chronic anxiety? I have friends and family members with chronic pain and, through them and their communities, have become aware of many people who use opiods on a long-term, occasional basis to manage their pain. A family member of mine who suffers from chronic migraine live…

> what are the alternatives for people with chronic pain or chronic anxiety?

If you look around the world, what is the solution there? The US is unique in the prescription of these drugs, but also unique in its reluctance to look around and say "what's everyone else doing that's working"?

I think here the answer is that it's fundamentally a different view on chronic pain (Acute pain is a different story- you don't prescribe a ton of opiates to someone who needs to keep it for emergencies).