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Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

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Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#61

It's simple. Less stuff equals more freedom. Freedom to move. Freedom from debt. Freedom from "keeping up with the Joneses". Freedom from soul-crushing jobs.

It's a bit more complicated than that.

Renting absolutely means more freedom to move. It also means less freedom to, say, tear down a wall in the house. I think home ownership is over-rated, but I wouldn't draw such a clear line on "freedom."

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#62
post #6

It may be better for the environment to not own stuff, but instead use services. For example, take a fridge. If I buy a fridge, the company I buy it from has an incentive to make it break in N years, so they can sell me a new one, i.e. "planned obsolescence". However, if I subscribe to a service to keep my food and beverages at a certain temperature, then the company has the incentive to make the fridge last as long…

They really just have an incentive to make sure that on average you pay more than enough to make them a profit over the expected lifetime of your fridge. They also have an incentive to get you the least expensive fridge with the longest lifetime, regardless of power consumption or any other factors. You already have something very close to this with home warranties and the providers tend to be awful in my experience.…

> The goal is just to extract money from you and keep costs down

While this mentality definitely exists, this doesn't account for brand and a wish to protect reputation. Hence why personally I tend to stick with established companies for things like trades as in the absence of a personal relationship, knowing someone has a brand to protect (and history against it) improves my chance of receiving a quality good/service

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#63
post #45
post #15

Amazon’s Kindle and other methods of online reading have revolutionized how Americans consume text. Fifteen years ago, people typically owned the books and magazines they were reading. Much less so now. The statements about books are not accurate. Ebook sales are still just a fraction of print sales in many genres - NPD data indicates ebooks are less than 20% of total unit sales for nonfiction, children, and young ad…

Let's assume ebooks are 20% (I know that's the upper bound you're positing, but let's start with that). If my salary were reduced by 20%, I would definitely say that I was making "much less". Would I say the same if my salary were reduced by, say, 10% rather than 20%? Maybe, maybe not, but I doubt I'd go so far as to say that characterization was simply "not accurate".

I think it's fair to say that eBooks haven't revolutionized the way the majority of people read books to anything like the degree that was expected (or has happened with music and video).

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#64

It's simple. Less stuff equals more freedom. Freedom to move. Freedom from debt. Freedom from "keeping up with the Joneses". Freedom from soul-crushing jobs.

That's a somewhat reductive take on it (e.g., car ownership, though often a huge hassle, also bestows an immeasurable degree of freedom), though I do empathize with the general sentiment. I personally find that each thing I own causes me a small amount of additional anxiety that accumulates and can only be relieved by getting rid of things (or better, not spending money on something I don't really need in the first place)... does it make sense to describe it as a mild version of the opposite of hoarding?

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#65
post #31

It's simple. Less stuff equals more freedom. Freedom to move. Freedom from debt. Freedom from "keeping up with the Joneses". Freedom from soul-crushing jobs.

I think it's more subtle than that. Needing less stuff gives freedom. Renting stuff instead gives less freedom... you have many of the same expenses as ownership, but if you ever stop paying your useful stuff disappears. Owned objects of utility provide insurance to ride out times with limited income.

Agreed. As least there's an asset with owned items.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#66
post #6

It may be better for the environment to not own stuff, but instead use services. For example, take a fridge. If I buy a fridge, the company I buy it from has an incentive to make it break in N years, so they can sell me a new one, i.e. "planned obsolescence". However, if I subscribe to a service to keep my food and beverages at a certain temperature, then the company has the incentive to make the fridge last as long…

> However, if I subscribe to a service to keep my food and beverages at a certain temperature, then the company has the incentive to make the fridge last as long as possible.

Theoretically, landlords would have the same incentive to purchase the longest lasting things for their rental units. In my experience, both as a renter and someone who designs buildings, the directive is "get the cheapest possible thing that will work".

Sometimes that's because the person paying to build the building is going to sell it once it's rented out, so they won't have to deal with the long term consequences. Sometimes it's just budget restrictions that won't permit the funds to buy the high-quality option. Sometimes it's just short-sightedness. It's rare to meet an owner who truly wants to invest in high quality, long-term solutions.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#67
There's a strange conflation in the article between "owning things" and "owning land." I think there is something fundamentally different about the two, in that having a patch of ground for which you are responsible for can help build a sense of self-reliance, investment in the future, skin in the game. Accumulating a wall-full of VHS tapes doesn't do that.

I don't much mourn the lack of ownership of a lot of worthless junk that doesn't bring fulfillment or human flourishing. The late 20th century West let itself fill garages and storage units with consumerist nonsense.

But it's important to recognize that the corporate consumerist system is all too willing to mutate, to adapt to people's changing tastes and to offer them a product they feel is liberation. If you've heard "Don't buy things, buy experiences," then you've heard this new advertising. Companies are all too willing to make you think that an "authentic" vacation around the world will bring happiness and meaning in the form of selfies. Restaurants play up the 'foodie' advertising to make consumption of their product seem like a life-altering experience. The companies realize they can sell the same thing again and again digitally to customers who binge-watch Netflix and pride themselves on cutting the cord and not vegging in front of the TV like their parents did. And at the end of the month you find yourself subscribed to so many services, so many pseudo-addictions, you wonder where your money is going.

Rather than buying things or buying experiences, consider what you can make yourself or find for free. There is already more than enough media content out there to last many lifetimes; why not look for old material that has stood the test of time? Why not build a skill and learn the value of becoming self-reliant in some small way?

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#68
post #6

It may be better for the environment to not own stuff, but instead use services. For example, take a fridge. If I buy a fridge, the company I buy it from has an incentive to make it break in N years, so they can sell me a new one, i.e. "planned obsolescence". However, if I subscribe to a service to keep my food and beverages at a certain temperature, then the company has the incentive to make the fridge last as long…

I don't think replacing one bad thing with another is the right solution. Planned obsolescence should be illegal, plain and simple.

  Planned obsolescence should be illegal
Is there a clear line between planned obsolescence and just making a cheap, low-quality product?

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#69

The issue is that ownership used to constitute a form of wealth, but now it constitutes a relentless financial drain. When I got stationed in Northern Virginia, I thought about buying a condo. But almost everywhere I looked, there were absurd HOA fees, some as much as $400/mo. Considering I could rent a room for $750/mo, it didn't make sense to buy. If RENT As for physical possessions, they all cost money (in rent!).…

If how+mortgage is even slightly more than rent you still end up doing well as soon as you are able to clear the agent and closing costs in recouping. Renting is easier to move for sure. But stay there 3 years and the story may be different. Stay there 8 years and you're making out well over rent. But being statitioned I can see why you might not. Then again I have friends with rentals in 5 cities for the same reason…

> it's also nice to say well this one didn't start today oh well how bout this one.

It's also nice not to give zero fucks about a dent or scratch. Some people get so worked up keeping their cars perfect, like its jewelry or something.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#70

> The nation was based on the notion that property ownership gives individuals a stake in the system. It set Americans apart from feudal peasants, taught us how property rights and incentives operate, and was a kind of training for future entrepreneurship. Then rents went up, education became more expensive, wages went stagnant, the rich got richer, and suddenly owning property and buying "stuff" to fuel the insatiab…

But society has willfully embraced living "in the present"...who here would give up their SF rental in exchange for a property in Gilroy they will eventually own? How many here would give up their leased 2018 BMW for a used Toyota Yaris?

Sure. I don't feel any urge to pay several hundred per month for several years for a car, when I can have an equally functional (if less flashy) car that I bought outright for less than the up-front deposit on the BMW.

(To be exact, I drive a 15-yr-old Skoda, not a Yaris, but you get the idea.)

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