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The Weight of Numbers: Air Pollution and PM2.5

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Re: The Weight of Numbers: Air Pollution and PM2.5

#61

Post by graeme »

gh02t wrote: post #60
graeme wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So gas that doesn't fry would be ok? Like, making a stew for example. Am wondering if the gas burning itself produces a lot of particulates. I don't think a fume hood is an option in my apartment unfortunately. (You can get a single gas burner to cook things in a donabe)

Gas combusts pretty cleanly and doesn't release much. I personally wouldn't worry about particulates from cooking that much. Get an air purifier if you want, any decent one should be able to pull that stuff out of the air fairly quickly.

Well, from frying the AQI was sometimes getting as high as 400. That seems...worrisome.

(More typical is 70-150, but that's usually with windows open. Harder in winter)

Re: The Weight of Numbers: Air Pollution and PM2.5

#62

Post by ggm »

anarbadalov wrote: post #58
ggm wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you work with the people at QUT (Brisbane) or Floreanopolis (Brazil) doing fine particulate work near airports and in hospitals? my partner did some proofreading and english-as-a-second-language with these people, fascinating stuff (as a complete outsider) and very important.

We don't. While we do often publish stories on public health issues, we don't conduct any of the research, we just report on the science. Australia and Brazil aren't regions we visited for this project, although I wouldn't be surprised to hear that there are areas experiencing extreme events in both.

Australia has a huge depndency on air and road freight with massive diesel subsidy to truckers and more air miles per Citizen than many other economies. We also have long hot dry weather. So the fine particulate matter issue here. Brazil has inadequate health funding and high humidity so gets mould..

Re: The Weight of Numbers: Air Pollution and PM2.5

#63

Post by SECProto »

graeme wrote: post #59
SECProto wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A fume hood that keeps splatters in and vents a lot would work. I think it's just unavoidable that frying vaporizes/aerosolizes particles, so your options are either vent the contaminated air, or don't fry.

So gas that doesn't fry would be ok? Like, making a stew for example. Am wondering if the gas burning itself produces a lot of particulates. I don't think a fume hood is an option in my apartment unfortunately. (You can get a single gas burner to cook things in a donabe)

sorry, i was commenting on the cooking technique (frying) not the heating method. Electric will create less particulate than gas, no matter how efficient the gas. frying will create more particulate than boiling, probably. if you're in Japan (guessing from the donabe reference) you'd probably be better off avoiding restaurants (with their smoking and cooking residue et al) if you're too concerned :)

Re: The Weight of Numbers: Air Pollution and PM2.5

#64

Post by gascan »

saidajigumi wrote: post #10
legulere wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a sensor built into an air purifier and have observed the same. Anything textile-related is bad like shaking out your blanket, which makes carpets seem horrible to me. But frying stuff really is the worst. You can go in the hundreds of micrograms, even with induction. A positive thing I have also learned is that opening the windows works best to get PM levels to a background level. Luckily it is only in the ar…

PM2.5 particulates are also a big problem with woodworking and other manufacturing processes. There, having proper particulate capture (via properly designed hoods, ducting, etc.) and adequate airflow and duct design (to not restrict airflow) is critical. For kitchen use, the lessons are largely similar: you need a fume hood that's properly designed and installed, with adequate airflow (often rated in CFM in the USA)…

The food is part of it, but the heat source must have some involvement. Combustion of gas produces byproducts, no way around it, and studies of camping stoves have shown the cleanliness of burn is wildly variable depending heavily on basic parameters like the shape of your cookware and the distance from the flame.

(For camp stoves, the chief question is carbon monoxide production- if a stove produces low enough levels of carbon monoxide, it's safe-ish to use inside a small tent high on a mountain in a blizzard where you can't cook outside. Climbers have died of CO poisoning cooking in tents, so it is a real possibility)

Re: The Weight of Numbers: Air Pollution and PM2.5

#65

Post by gascan »

graeme wrote: post #22
gascan wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cooking with gas or electricity? I've heard before that cooking with gas causes significantly more indoor air quality problems, but I'm curious what your observations are.

My electric stove shoots my AQI through the roof when frying. Made me consider alternate ways to cook. Though, would like to know if gas is worse, as one alternative I was considering was Donabe, which requires gas.

I think this is what I had originally read that made me curious.

https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/the-hazards-of-...

This talks less about particulate, it seems. Electric clearly doesn't produce carbon monoxide or nitrogen dioxide.

Re: The Weight of Numbers: Air Pollution and PM2.5

#66

Post by graeme »

SECProto wrote: post #63
graeme wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So gas that doesn't fry would be ok? Like, making a stew for example. Am wondering if the gas burning itself produces a lot of particulates. I don't think a fume hood is an option in my apartment unfortunately. (You can get a single gas burner to cook things in a donabe)

sorry, i was commenting on the cooking technique (frying) not the heating method. Electric will create less particulate than gas, no matter how efficient the gas. frying will create more particulate than boiling, probably. if you're in Japan (guessing from the donabe reference) you'd probably be better off avoiding restaurants (with their smoking and cooking residue et al) if you're too concerned :)

Actually not in japan. Just looked like a tasty, easy way to make meals and was interested in trying it. Nut unsure of the effects of the gas burner on indoor air pollution.

A quick search suggests this may be a poor idea on air quality grounds: https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/122-a27/

Re: The Weight of Numbers: Air Pollution and PM2.5

#67

Post by sberder »

sundvor wrote: post #54
sberder wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should be concerned as many research shows: * leaving close to a busy road raises the risk of early dementia [1] * higher risk of asthma * cardiac arythmia I could go longer but don't want to get too dark For your situation, I think a laser egg from kaiterra is a good machine, you can bring it around and is reliable on the long run. They use a plantower sensor (mentioned in another comment) but have their own fir…

Great response, thanks very much. That's interesting how it's also been linked to cardiac arrhythmia! I'm unable to order a Laser Egg from (no Australian distributors), so would need to source an alternative - unless I go for a freight forwarder.

You could simply contact them, they're a bunch of good people, I'm sure they could make it work for you!

Re: The Weight of Numbers: Air Pollution and PM2.5

#68

Post by sberder »

roel_v wrote: post #55
sberder wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most purifiers on the market with built-in sensors are unreliable to measure. They usually go for cheap IR sensors without flow control. Your results will vary wildly depending on conditions (temperature and humidity affect measurements a lot). I personally like Xiaomi purifiers for their affordability and noise level. If you're concerned about measuring pm2.5 in your space, you should consider buying a good entry le…

Are there air quality meters available at affordable prices (say, <= $100) that can easily be integrated with home automation systems? (like, have an api, or that connect to cloud services so that I can capture the traffic?) Also, any recommendations on outdoor sensors? There have been a few crowd sourced efforts over thale last few years, but I've not been very impressed by them.

I don't know of any cheap outdoor sensors, they are more tricky than indoor as wind (air flow in the sensor), temperature, humidity and dust become more of a prominent problem. For a cheap sensor, laser egg publishes API endpoints to get latest data. You can also fairly easily add a plantower to an arduino/raspi kind of setup. Pantower is a sensor that will give you reliable output OOTB, can be improved but good enough.
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