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Freeing the Web from the Browser

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Re: Freeing the Web from the Browser

#61

Post by mtrycz2 »

oblio wrote: post #10

While this is somewhat cool, I have a few comments: > The Web is, without a doubt, the most powerful research tool currently available to man. No longer must researchers comb through endless indices and catalogues to find what they are looking for. True, but most people aren't researchers. Heck, I think most people don't even know what indices are :) > The vast majority of those interested in a piece of work are mere…

I also disagree with the premise that research happens on hypertexts.

When you do research you need to concentrate on the lecture at hand in-depth, not get lost in a web of references breadth-first style.

Re: Freeing the Web from the Browser

#62

Post by IshKebab »

TuringTest wrote: post #5

Most saddening, perhaps, is the way in which the Web constrains the use of links. For example: although the link is the primary form of reference on the Web, underpinning the tangle of connections that make the system so useful, the ability to create new links is a privilege granted only to content producers. The vast majority of those interested in a piece of work are merely readers, unable to contribute, only to co…

No it wasn't. The "Web 2.0" was all about DHTML (remember that?) and AJAX. (The wikipedia article about this seems very confused by the way.)

Re: Freeing the Web from the Browser

#63

Post by jplayer01 »

mtrycz2 wrote: post #61
oblio wrote: post #10

While this is somewhat cool, I have a few comments: > The Web is, without a doubt, the most powerful research tool currently available to man. No longer must researchers comb through endless indices and catalogues to find what they are looking for. True, but most people aren't researchers. Heck, I think most people don't even know what indices are :) > The vast majority of those interested in a piece of work are mere…

I also disagree with the premise that research happens on hypertexts. When you do research you need to concentrate on the lecture at hand in-depth, not get lost in a web of references breadth-first style.

What? You need to survey hundreds of papers that are relevant to your research. Nobody has the time, nor is it expected or in any way efficient, to read even a majority of these in-depth.

Re: Freeing the Web from the Browser

#64

Post by xtf »

Most documents are linked regarding the topic. If you go on a math page, you've got math links. Ancient and holy texts could be referenced in multiple ways, because it could be interpreted in multiple ways (or the correct way is unknown), but not something like guides. If a guide is written in more than one meaning, it is not a good guide. Learning should be more seen like a tree, you go down the route of branches and specialize more in the directions of it and the branches lead the references. At the beginning you learn the language, later you know it, otherwise every word needs to be linked.

Re: Freeing the Web from the Browser

#65

Post by TuringTest »

IshKebab wrote: post #62
TuringTest wrote: post #5

Most saddening, perhaps, is the way in which the Web constrains the use of links. For example: although the link is the primary form of reference on the Web, underpinning the tangle of connections that make the system so useful, the ability to create new links is a privilege granted only to content producers. The vast majority of those interested in a piece of work are merely readers, unable to contribute, only to co…

No it wasn't. The "Web 2.0" was all about DHTML (remember that?) and AJAX. (The wikipedia article about this seems very confused by the way.)

That was the technical Web 2.0. Apparently you missed how it was seen by marketing and media people, who couldn't care less about DHTML and Ajax.

Re: Freeing the Web from the Browser

#66

Post by einrealist »

I don‘t get what the actual problem is and how todays technology is limiting anyone to create something like a link-sharing (e.g. reddit) or link-redirect (hello url shorteners). Of course, if you need control over the content, then you have to build a content management platform, too (centralised or decentralised does not matter). But then you deal with boring copyright and other legal stuff.

And hey, browsers do allow extensions nowadays. And if that‘s not enough, build your own.

Re: Freeing the Web from the Browser

#67

Post by fiatjaf »

TuringTest wrote: post #5

Most saddening, perhaps, is the way in which the Web constrains the use of links. For example: although the link is the primary form of reference on the Web, underpinning the tangle of connections that make the system so useful, the ability to create new links is a privilege granted only to content producers. The vast majority of those interested in a piece of work are merely readers, unable to contribute, only to co…

http://hypothes.is/

Re: Freeing the Web from the Browser

#68

Post by gcb0 »

machiaweliczny wrote: post #30

I would love a web where you can comment with your forum circle on any URI available on internet. Eg. I open some research paper and I click "comments" in web browsers. And I see comments from /r/machinelearning, hackernews etc. Also real time chat would be awesome to have for each of websites. Nowadays it work for me like this - found something interesting X - type "X site:myforum" in google to learn more about it F…

there have been dozen of solutions like this since the 90s that came and went. specially during the "browser toolbar era". and there migth be new one poping up now.

in the end it is a privacy nightmare. see stylish extension privacy problems last months.

Re: Freeing the Web from the Browser

#69

Post by TuringTest »

fiatjaf wrote: post #67
TuringTest wrote: post #5

Most saddening, perhaps, is the way in which the Web constrains the use of links. For example: although the link is the primary form of reference on the Web, underpinning the tangle of connections that make the system so useful, the ability to create new links is a privilege granted only to content producers. The vast majority of those interested in a piece of work are merely readers, unable to contribute, only to co…

http://hypothes.is/

Right; we just need everybody, everywhere to adopt hypothes.is; instead of one of all the other competitors.

Adopting a single protocol by the masses is something that rarely works. It's much easier to gain critical mass if a server platform (like Wordpress) included an annotation module as part of its default modules, so that it appeared at many websites as soon as they update to the latest version. Then, it could catch on as a popular feature, and other platforms would start to build their own implementations, making it more visible and gaining traction all over the web.

(That Wordpress module could very well be the hypothes.is software, if they're compatible. But it really needs to be adopted server-side by a popular service to gain traction).

Re: Freeing the Web from the Browser

#70

Post by wild_preference »

wruza wrote: post #55
machiaweliczny wrote: post #30

I would love a web where you can comment with your forum circle on any URI available on internet. Eg. I open some research paper and I click "comments" in web browsers. And I see comments from /r/machinelearning, hackernews etc. Also real time chat would be awesome to have for each of websites. Nowadays it work for me like this - found something interesting X - type "X site:myforum" in google to learn more about it F…

That could erase forum-ness of people and turn comments into a big heap of voices. Personally I wouldn’t like my forums if they were just a random people hanging around. Moderators and implicit rules do form what a forum is, what you do on it , but with “just comments on URI” all will be lost. While your wish feels great, it has downsides, since as an entire humanity we’re still not ready to discuss anything.

Just seems like a downgrade to posting it on said forum.

For example, now you need a UI that enumerates the articles that have comments on them. Maybe new comments even bump to the top. Starts to sound like a regular forum but with a small gimmick to me. There’s a reason this never caught on.

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