Ask: How do you apply “programmer’s” efficiency in everyday life things? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask: How do you apply “programmer’s” efficiency in everyday life things?

#61

Post by btschaegg » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 5:05 AM UTC

jamescostian wrote: post #45

_8j50 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opinion does not require evidence. He was commenting based on experience.

GP wasn't asserting that the original comment wasn't an opinion, GP was asserting that the lack of evidence makes the opinion unnecessary (the question was not "Why ..." it was "How ..." and the question did not ask for any tips). To better demonstrate why this opinion isn't worth a lot without strong evidence, one can imagine almost the same words, but arguing for the exact opposite side and notice how neither argum…

> The tunnel vision that goal oriented people have prevents them from performing efficiently enough to meet their goals.

Interesting. You basically just described various situations in which I was flabbergasted because some colleagues of mine regularly try to slog manually through very boring, repetitive tasks (with much sighing and moaning, of course). I find it rather strange to have to point out possible automation (even for one-off tasks) in an IT firm.

That said, being the procrastinating type, some tasks just have to get done. The dishes don't do themselves, no matter how much you organize them :-)

Re: Ask: How do you apply “programmer’s” efficiency in everyday life things?

#62

Post by hakfoo » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 5:38 AM UTC

pidge wrote: post #9

A literal one that I probably picked up from another comment section here: Treat your closet as an LRU cache—always put clothes away on one side, and start looking for items from the same side. As an added benefit when you run out of capacity, anything that has ended up on the far side is a likely candidate to be evicted to a higher latency storage layer (bins in the attic), or simply deleted and recomputed if ever n…

I've found clothing to be a problem because it tends to be a stack organization for things in drawers, which means you tend to keep pulling out the same few pairs of shorts, wearing them and putting them back, but the ones at the bottom stay untouched for years.

Re: Ask: How do you apply “programmer’s” efficiency in everyday life things?

#63

Post by hakfoo » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 5:43 AM UTC

NSAID wrote: post #53

Rjevski wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, I imagined it would be a problem in the US. I am in the UK though, where you pretty much don't have to do anything as far as taxes go when you're a simple employee, and if you do have to deal with the taxman, you can do pretty much everything online and get email notifications. However, wouldn't important letters (like urgent communication from the IRS or similar government agency) that could have consequences i…

Not in the US. I've received one or two important letters from the IRS (that is, I unintentionally owed them money) that arrived via regular post. I'm not sure if that speaks to the reliability of the USPS or a lack of imagination on the IRS's part (or maybe the government trusts the government postal service?). Certainly people and businesses do use registered and certified mail, but not everyone.

I think it's a matter of "they'll try normal mail, then if it doesn't get a response, they'll resort to registered mail."

It's a legal CYA matter probably, more than a government-collusion thing- registered mail comes with a tight chain of custody ending in a signature confirmation, so you couldn't claim "I never got the notice" when they started to ask for a judgement.

Re: Ask: How do you apply “programmer’s” efficiency in everyday life things?

#64

Post by thecupisblue » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 8:59 AM UTC

pommers wrote: post #48

I've gone down the path of minimising my choices to a small good set for a lot of things. I do this for everything from clothes and shoes to managing my money. Clothes are simple. 10 shirts that are either black or grey. Three shirts that are work branded. close to ten pairs of chinos and jeans (all work appropriate, some kevlar lined for motorbikes) Bulk undies and socks, all patterned so they are easy to pair up. T…

> Clothes are simple. 10 shirts that are either black or grey. Three shirts that are work branded. close to ten pairs of chinos and jeans

I'd die living like this. No other shirts?

Re: Ask: How do you apply “programmer’s” efficiency in everyday life things?

#65

Post by tchaffee » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 9:43 AM UTC

projektir wrote: post #60

_8j50 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opinion does not require evidence. He was commenting based on experience.

jamescostian has addressed the point well enough, but to add more to it, there are many ways to state an opinion, but tchaffee chose a very authoritative one, and when you claim something as true with neither evidence nor a good mechanism exploration, I believe you should be called out on it, because way too many claims like this are being made these days and people often end up believing them because they don't stop…

I suggested he time things himself. Why isn't that a good enough mechanism of exploration?

Re: Ask: How do you apply “programmer’s” efficiency in everyday life things?

#66

Post by tchaffee » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 10:14 AM UTC

projektir wrote: post #8

tchaffee wrote: post #2

You are task oriented, while your wife is goal oriented. If there are twenty dishes to wash and you only have time to wash seven, the goal oriented person washes the seven. Goal oriented people actually tend to be better organized and get more things done. All of the time you spend planning doesn't add up to enough savings for it to pay off. Try timing a few things and see for yourself. Loading the dishwasher in a di…

Such claims are very major and significant, but rarely have strong evidence behind them, and as such I would recommend that they are not made, and that the OP continues to do whatever it is that they find efficient.

How much effort would it take you to pay attention to whether or not you are goal or task oriented and to time a few things to see if you are being too focused on efficiency when you could just be getting things done?

If you posted about how you approached flying a drone and someone noticed something they thought could use improvement, would you ask for a source? Or just give it a try if their advice sounded reasonable?

Let's not get so enthusiastic about asking for sources and evidence that we insist on sources for things which we could quickly and cheaply experiment with on our own and find out for ourselves if the advice has any merit.

Re: Ask: How do you apply “programmer’s” efficiency in everyday life things?

#67

Post by tchaffee » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 10:26 AM UTC

jamescostian wrote: post #45

_8j50 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opinion does not require evidence. He was commenting based on experience.

GP wasn't asserting that the original comment wasn't an opinion, GP was asserting that the lack of evidence makes the opinion unnecessary (the question was not "Why ..." it was "How ..." and the question did not ask for any tips). To better demonstrate why this opinion isn't worth a lot without strong evidence, one can imagine almost the same words, but arguing for the exact opposite side and notice how neither argum…

Your advice would be just as good as the advice I gave. Because it contains the most important part of my advice:

"Try timing a few things and see for yourself."

The point is that some things in life deserve to be looked at for efficiency improvements, and some things should just get done. Understanding the difference between the two takes some observation. And by observing people who are organized and efficient as opposed to people who are disorganized and procrastinate in the framework of goal oriented vs. task oriented I think it will become quickly obvious to the OP where the difference is.

Making that shift from task oriented to goal oriented hugely improved my own life. I was very focused on collecting long lists of tasks and then trying to optimize them. While I was determining the optimal route for collecting building supplies, dropping off the laundry, doing my grocery shopping, optimizing the cooking process, etc., my friends had already built the pool deck and were on the way to the supermarket... YMMV.

> why this opinion isn't worth a lot without strong evidence

Do you really need strong evidence for something that you can quickly and easily try yourself at home? If I suggest an improvement to your bike riding technique you want a scholarly study or you'll just give it a go?

Re: Ask: How do you apply “programmer’s” efficiency in everyday life things?

#68

Post by pommers » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 10:26 AM UTC

thecupisblue wrote: post #64

pommers wrote: post #48

I've gone down the path of minimising my choices to a small good set for a lot of things. I do this for everything from clothes and shoes to managing my money. Clothes are simple. 10 shirts that are either black or grey. Three shirts that are work branded. close to ten pairs of chinos and jeans (all work appropriate, some kevlar lined for motorbikes) Bulk undies and socks, all patterned so they are easy to pair up. T…

> Clothes are simple. 10 shirts that are either black or grey. Three shirts that are work branded. close to ten pairs of chinos and jeans I'd die living like this. No other shirts?

I have a couple of button up shirts with my suits. And three shirts with prints on them for casual friday, but they are mainly black too.

Re: Ask: How do you apply “programmer’s” efficiency in everyday life things?

#69

Post by tchaffee » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 10:32 AM UTC

btschaegg wrote: post #61

jamescostian wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GP wasn't asserting that the original comment wasn't an opinion, GP was asserting that the lack of evidence makes the opinion unnecessary (the question was not "Why ..." it was "How ..." and the question did not ask for any tips). To better demonstrate why this opinion isn't worth a lot without strong evidence, one can imagine almost the same words, but arguing for the exact opposite side and notice how neither argum…

> The tunnel vision that goal oriented people have prevents them from performing efficiently enough to meet their goals. Interesting. You basically just described various situations in which I was flabbergasted because some colleagues of mine regularly try to slog manually through very boring, repetitive tasks (with much sighing and moaning, of course). I find it rather strange to have to point out possible automatio…

I'm glad you mentioned procrastination. That's a key characteristic of task oriented people. The biggest benefit I got from observing goal oriented vs. task oriented people was to stop procrastinating (in the name of efficiency) and to just get things done. Things like the dishes. And once I understood there's not going to be a breakthrough in efficiency in picking up socks around the house, I also started moving faster at those things so I could get back to the fun stuff like thinking about how to make stuff efficient. Stuff that really can be made more efficient.

Re: Ask: How do you apply “programmer’s” efficiency in everyday life things?

#70

Post by tchaffee » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 10:36 AM UTC

Cieplak wrote: post #21

wskinner wrote: post #12

I store physical items in my home in an LRU cache. Items I use all the the time are close to the places where I use them. Less frequently used items are stored further from the place they are used, for example in a closet or the garage. This clashes badly with my roommate, also a programmer, who strongly prefers to store items by category. He will put all the kitchen gadgets on a shelf by the kitchen even if those ga…

This reminds me a lot of Marie Kondo's book, The Life-Changing Magic of Tidying Up , which had a huge impact on how I organize things.

Also reminds me of Sandra Felton's book The Messies Manual: The Procrastinator's Guide to Good Housekeeping which had a huge impact on my approach to most things in life requiring organization. I'll one-up the idea of an LRU cache: you can own several pairs of scissors. And the right place for them can be the workshop, the sewing room, the art studio room, the kitchen, and your home office. That one tip has saved me loads of time.