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Why Americans Spend So Much on Health Care–In 12 Charts

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Re: Why Americans Spend So Much on Health Care–In 12 Charts

#61

Post by sv123 »

malvosenior wrote: post #31
knuththetruth wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...implementing a healthcare policy cooked up by conservative think tanks in the 1990s. The rest of the developed world shows that anything short of national healthcare system is an expensive mistake.

So the democrats are not to blame for implementing it? I don't see how you can single out any particular party for this situation and if I had to, I'd go with the people that actually jacked up my premiums (democrats).

The democrats big mistake was trying to compromise with the republicans, who still refused to work on it. it's clear the whole system is borked, and I only see one party at least trying to do something about it.

Re: Why Americans Spend So Much on Health Care–In 12 Charts

#62

Post by davidw »

peterwwillis wrote: post #52
howard941 wrote: post #12

> Consumers, meanwhile, buoyed by insurance and tax breaks, have little idea how much they are really spending and little incentive to know underlying costs. Almost weekly there's another post showing that consumers literally cannot find out costs usually because the provider cannot supply it. It's time to put a stake in the heart of the recurring blame-the-consumer trope.

I have a reason to partly blame consumers. Recently I went in for a consult to see about an operation. Before the consult, they asked for a pee sample. After the consult I got a bill, including the lab work. I never got the operation. The doctor never needed that lab for the consult. I don't think they even performed it that day. They just threw an extra step into the procedure, knowing that most patients would just…

> Hopefully somebody else does.

Copy what works well in the rest of the world?

Re: Why Americans Spend So Much on Health Care–In 12 Charts

#63

Post by pjc50 »

bepotts wrote: post #59
komali2 wrote: post #8

Do republican politicians, and others in charge of maintaining this healthcare farce we have, have some sort of training in "convince the downtrodden to vote for things that make their lives harder" or is it just something natural? I say this as a Wisconsin emigrant that watched my home state shoot itself in the face time and time and time again.

I don't understand how the "downtrodden" who rejects help from the government is somehow naive, but the billionaire who votes to have his taxes increased is somehow smart, noble, and a patriot. At the end of the day everyone votes for the policy initiatives that they prefer - whether the program is trying to help them or not. The thing about lots of "downtrodden" people is they want opportunity - not support from the…

> They want to be able to stand on their two feet to support their wives and kids

It's pretty hard to stand on your own feet in a hospital bed.

Re: Why Americans Spend So Much on Health Care–In 12 Charts

#64

Post by opportune »

nkw wrote: post #38
komali2 wrote: post #8

Do republican politicians, and others in charge of maintaining this healthcare farce we have, have some sort of training in "convince the downtrodden to vote for things that make their lives harder" or is it just something natural? I say this as a Wisconsin emigrant that watched my home state shoot itself in the face time and time and time again.

So I like to think I'm pretty darn on the liberal side of the spectrum, but the (ACA if Democrat) (Obamacare if Republican) was overall a giant handout to the health insurance companies while carrying forward almost all of the pre-existing problems with health care in the US (see the charts in the original article). Both parties share substantial amount of blame for the current state of health care in the US. It is h…

This is it. Both parties have failed with healthcare - Republicans through complete inaction, and Democrats through pushing through legislation that simply expanded insurance coverage. While I think the ACA made things better than before (it got a lot more people insured and thus no longer easily susceptible to medical bankruptcy), it was a very imperfect and inefficient solution.

Because of the donors to each side - small government boosters like the Koch’s for the Republicans, insurance and pharmaceutical companies to the Democrats - it’s going to be very hard to move to a single payer solution. Even if you don’t think that’s the right way to handle it, you must admit that there is not much money behind it

Re: Why Americans Spend So Much on Health Care–In 12 Charts

#65

Post by richmarr »

peterwwillis wrote: post #52
howard941 wrote: post #12

> Consumers, meanwhile, buoyed by insurance and tax breaks, have little idea how much they are really spending and little incentive to know underlying costs. Almost weekly there's another post showing that consumers literally cannot find out costs usually because the provider cannot supply it. It's time to put a stake in the heart of the recurring blame-the-consumer trope.

I have a reason to partly blame consumers. Recently I went in for a consult to see about an operation. Before the consult, they asked for a pee sample. After the consult I got a bill, including the lab work. I never got the operation. The doctor never needed that lab for the consult. I don't think they even performed it that day. They just threw an extra step into the procedure, knowing that most patients would just…

> The blame falls on me here because I put blind faith in the doctor's office and did not fully investigate everything being done and approve or deny things based on my questions.

The thing you are describing is not the problem. In a normal healthcare system patients aren't expected to second-guess and interrogate doctors.

Re: Why Americans Spend So Much on Health Care–In 12 Charts

#66

Post by ta1234567890 »

whatok wrote: post #41
howard941 wrote: post #12

> Consumers, meanwhile, buoyed by insurance and tax breaks, have little idea how much they are really spending and little incentive to know underlying costs. Almost weekly there's another post showing that consumers literally cannot find out costs usually because the provider cannot supply it. It's time to put a stake in the heart of the recurring blame-the-consumer trope.

Even if you got complete disclosure of costs, there is no incentive for consumers to negotiate costs because of insurance coverage. Sure, rates go up but that's a detached and opaque process.

Actually there's at least 2 incentives: 1) even with insurance coverage you have a deductible, and unless you have a year with a lot of doctor visits or procedures, you're probably going to end up paying almost everything out of pocket, 2) higher medical bills drive insurance costs, if you can get lower bills you can reduce your insurance costs (not even negotiating with the insurance, but just simply switching to a different/cheaper plan with lower coverage).

Re: Why Americans Spend So Much on Health Care–In 12 Charts

#67

Post by pjc50 »

malvosenior wrote: post #58
knuththetruth wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, they’re entirely to blame and I’m just as angry as anyone for them furthering this broken system. But their choice of doing so was guided by right-wing ideology. The Democratic Party is a center-right party. You might not be able to single out any one party for this problem, but you can certainly indict those who further this kind of thinking in the face of its demonstrable moral and economic failure.

I'm sorry but the sheer amount of regulation around healthcare is not a right-wing ideology. Let's get the free market in here and watch costs come crashing down. Do away with mandatory coverage, subscription windows, the government run "marketplace" and costs will come down. There's nothing right-wing about any of those features.

> mandatory coverage

Yes, removing this reduces costs - by creating a category of people who can't get insurance at anything resembling a price they can afford, and therefore either have to suffer, go bankrupt, die, or all three.

Re: Why Americans Spend So Much on Health Care–In 12 Charts

#68

Post by linuxftw »

y-c-o-m-b wrote: post #43

Healthcare costs are by far the #1 reason why I want to move out of the U.S. as soon as possible. I am well off, but due to recent experience I have a major anxiety about going bankrupt from another unexpected health issue. I had emergency spine surgery last year and despite coordinating everything I could to stay in network prior to entering the hospital - surgeon was in network, hospital in network, etc... - the mo…

> How long can they continue doing this before the whole system collapses?

The system is working as designed. Regulation ensures the corporations are getting rich and you're going broke.

When the government decided to make insurance a mandatory product, what did you really think the outcome was going to be? Insurance companies acted in their own interest: lowered payments to providers which forced providers out of their 'networks.'

I know, I know. The insurance companies (that formed 'non-profit' entities) are 'losing' money. But, thankfully, the laws provided for subsidies in case of 'losses.' It's all smoke and mirrors.

Re: Why Americans Spend So Much on Health Care–In 12 Charts

#69

Post by ryandrake »

JimboOmega wrote: post #22
howard941 wrote: post #12

> Consumers, meanwhile, buoyed by insurance and tax breaks, have little idea how much they are really spending and little incentive to know underlying costs. Almost weekly there's another post showing that consumers literally cannot find out costs usually because the provider cannot supply it. It's time to put a stake in the heart of the recurring blame-the-consumer trope.

I don't read it as "blame the consumer" but "the system is opaque". The consumer doesn't know and can't find out. Articles have been written for, I don't know, a decade or more decrying the opacity of the "Chargemaster", etc, and how if you call a hospital to ask the charge for a procedure, they probably can't give you a quote. If you have certain kinds of insurance, you're not even incentivized to care - you tolerat…

Additionally, the first thing you have to do when you go to the doctor in the US is sign that paper that basically says “I agree to be responsible for the bill, no matter what it ends up being.” Which is ridiculous given you can’t know what the bill is until after you’re charged.

Imagine going to the grocery store and there are no prices on anything. You load up your cart and walk out and the grocery store sends you a bill months later. The bill is enormous because the grocery store has a signed statement from you agreeing to pay whatever they want. That’s the system we have for healthcare.

Re: Why Americans Spend So Much on Health Care–In 12 Charts

#70

Post by chrisbennet »

malvosenior wrote: post #13
komali2 wrote: post #8

Do republican politicians, and others in charge of maintaining this healthcare farce we have, have some sort of training in "convince the downtrodden to vote for things that make their lives harder" or is it just something natural? I say this as a Wisconsin emigrant that watched my home state shoot itself in the face time and time and time again.

You do realize that it was under democratic leadership that healthcare costs shot up so much. Obamacare increased my monthly payment almost 2X.

Health care costs were (and are) increasing. The rate of increase slowed under the last administration. [1] Your costs may have gone up if you were part of a low risk group because under Obamacare, low risk individuals were made to share the cost of other insureds who were stupid enough to get old, be poor or have existing health issues that made them unprofitable for insurance companies to insure. Obamacare also removed the low price "scam" insurances that would deny coverage on flimsy "pre-existing condition" pretenses.

If I'd kept the same program that I had under the Obama administration, my costs would have doubled under the current administration (800->$1600mo).

[1] https://www.factcheck.org/2015/02/slower-premium-growth-unde...

"..the average premium for single coverage through employers has gone up 28 percent “under Obama” That’s right again, but much lower than the growth of individual premiums during Bush’s first six years. That increase was 72 percent."

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