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Serverless, Inc. lands $10M Series A to build serverless dev platform

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Re: Serverless, Inc. lands $10M Series A to build serverless dev platform

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NoSQL has been and continues to be hugely influential. All major cloud players provide document/object based storage, as well as other NoSQL Solutions. The term "NoSQL" was dumb and overhyped... But I think it's really about using the correct storage solution for the job. Non relational data should be stored in a non rdbms. Key-Value stores like Redis are immensely useful as caching layers (but they offer so many mor…

> The reason "NoSQL" dbs got popular are because in my experience Monolithic large relational databases are hard to scale. I've met a lot of people whomst thought they had to scale that big. Very few handled anything that couldn't run off a beefy postgres installation. The purpose of a system is what it does. People don't use nosql to scale because they don't need to scale, so what does it do? People use nosql to not…

> Very few handled anything that couldn't run off a beefy postgres installation.

Beefy postgres would get you to 99.9% availability at best, with pretty bad tail latency and would cost quite a bit to operate. As it turns out, very few can actually live with that. And even infamous MongoDB can do better at this than PostgreSQL. Ignorance simply makes your business less competitive.

Re: Serverless, Inc. lands $10M Series A to build serverless dev platform

#62
post #51
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your right that the cold start times are not ideal. But you get a huge free request load per month. Put an uptime pinger on it and keep it warm. Or do what I do and write your functions in golang. My average cold start time is around 4 seconds. For the DB connection you put the lambda in the same vpc that the RDS exists in. Then you open the connection pool and reuse it if its active. Not that a new connection is a b…

I know uptime pingers are easy and obvious solutions (I use them myself), but everytime I have to resort to this sort of hack it reminds me of how immature serverless is.

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Re: Serverless, Inc. lands $10M Series A to build serverless dev platform

#63
post #2

Here's to hoping ignoring serverless will work as well as ignoring NoSQL worked for me.

This is anecdotal, and I've read cases of the opposite, so I know there are downvotes incoming.

I've yet to work on a system where NoSQL was I was like "thank goodness we didn't use a structured database!". Instead, every time it's been the HIPPO trying to defend the decision while everyone else just deals with it. NoSQL seems to be taking a giant loan... You're going to need to organize and parse your data at some point (or why would you keep the data?). Putting that decision into the future just makes it harder on everyone.

Re: Serverless, Inc. lands $10M Series A to build serverless dev platform

#64
post #55
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you deal with the 10+ second cold start times for Lambda when using it in a VPC? Are you pre-warming your lambda functions? Did you open up your RDS instance to the world so you could connect to it from a public lambda network? I know you had to pull some magic, because I've been down that road. It's been a problem for years and there's been no sign of a solution. Example article from last month: https://mediu…

My employer offers FaunaDB with a pay-per-request pricing model. To bypass cold-start lambda issues, I code the app to talk directly to the database. For certain richer functions I might invoke a Lambda, but for basic crud operations the database access control does the trick. And no cold-start issue. Here's the data model part of my todo app if you want to see queries in the app: https://github.com/fauna/todomvc-fau…

AWS also has NoSQL cloud solutions, particularly DynamoDB, and maybe SimpleDB if you want to risk building on a someday deprecated service.

Those options work fine, if you were OK with using a NoSQL DB. But what if you wanted to use an actual relational database? For that you pretty much need Lambda in VPC, and it's not really usable because of the cold start issue.

At some point Amazon will release Aurora Serverless[1], giving a serverless option for an on demand relational database. Will that work somehow with Lambda without needing VPC, therefore defeating the cold start issue? What cold start issues we'll it have itself? I guess we'll wait and see for now.

1. https://aws.amazon.com/rds/aurora/serverless/

Re: Serverless, Inc. lands $10M Series A to build serverless dev platform

#65
post #22

The coming age of people with no understanding of what running code actually means, no idea how hardware/close to hardware systems behave deep down, is going to be fabulous, and full of wasted computing.

> The coming age of people with no understanding of what running code actually means, no idea how hardware/close to hardware systems behave deep down, is going to be fabulous, and full of wasted computing. Just like now is to people who were programming in the 1990s, or the 1990s to people who were programming in the 1970s.

Partially agreed; on the other hand, Arduinos & PIC helped a lot to get, say, hardware IRQs, something that is quite heavily abstracted away in general computing.

Re: Serverless, Inc. lands $10M Series A to build serverless dev platform

#66
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reason "NoSQL" dbs got popular are because in my experience Monolithic large relational databases are hard to scale. I've met a lot of people whomst thought they had to scale that big. Very few handled anything that couldn't run off a beefy postgres installation. The purpose of a system is what it does. People don't use nosql to scale because they don't need to scale, so what does it do? People use nosql to not…

> Very few handled anything that couldn't run off a beefy postgres installation. Beefy postgres would get you to 99.9% availability at best, with pretty bad tail latency and would cost quite a bit to operate. As it turns out, very few can actually live with that. And even infamous MongoDB can do better at this than PostgreSQL. Ignorance simply makes your business less competitive.

> Beefy postgres would get you to 99.9% availability at best

This is just false. Shrug.

Re: Serverless, Inc. lands $10M Series A to build serverless dev platform

#67
post #22

The coming age of people with no understanding of what running code actually means, no idea how hardware/close to hardware systems behave deep down, is going to be fabulous, and full of wasted computing.

The people programming in the 1970s feel the same way about today, when you use such high level abstractions like C. That's why programs today require so much RAM and CPU.

But that is the price of agility. Serverless is just another abstraction on top that increases agility at the price of increased compute.

Re: Serverless, Inc. lands $10M Series A to build serverless dev platform

#68
post #16

I don't understand the knee-jerk opposition people have to serverless architectures. I recently developed a service[1] with the serverless framework and it was the first time I enjoyed developing server-side code since the era of PHP on shared hosts, where you could just upload code and refresh the page. There's something freeing about never having to think about the server process or what happens if the server is po…

I think a lot of people have tried “serverless” and found it to present more challenges than it solves. How, for example, do you connect to a Postgres database from Lambda/Cloud Functions? As far as I can tell, the answer is: You don’t, you use a different database. No-worries devops experiences are nothing new. See Heroku.

> How, for example, do you connect to a Postgres database from Lambda/Cloud Functions?

Exactly the same way you would with an EC2 instance...

Re: Serverless, Inc. lands $10M Series A to build serverless dev platform

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reason "NoSQL" dbs got popular are because in my experience Monolithic large relational databases are hard to scale. I've met a lot of people whomst thought they had to scale that big. Very few handled anything that couldn't run off a beefy postgres installation. The purpose of a system is what it does. People don't use nosql to scale because they don't need to scale, so what does it do? People use nosql to not…

Scale is not just user load, but also scale of application complexity. In my experience when one db connection has access to every resource, in a complex application, this can lead to some really convoluted queries and make schema changes very difficult because of cross cutting dependencies built into these queries, triggers, procedures... etc. This is forgetting about the issues of deadlocks when you have 80 consumi…

> "Scale is not just user load, but also scale of application complexity"

In my experience, when people use NoSQL because "the application is too complex for relational DBs" they tend to make a mess of it, NoSQL included. They usually end up reinventing the wheel and re-writing buggy versions of features a RDBMS would have given them natively.

Re: Serverless, Inc. lands $10M Series A to build serverless dev platform

#70
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it should really just be called Functions-as-a-service, and they are great for single-focus reactive/connective processing and 1-off tasks but are not a replacement for everything as people try to use it for.

As far as I know, serverless isn't just FaaS. As you pointed out FaaS is to connect things, nothing more. For me serverless is pay-as-you go pricing, no over- or under-provisioning and last but not least, no server-management. Lambda, DynamoDB, S3, AppSync, Device Farm, Aurora, etc. are all serverless.

> Lambda, DynamoDB, S3, AppSync, Device Farm, Aurora, etc. are all serverless.

Yep. Lambda may be functions-as-a-service, which is a great name for it, but the whole shebang is more than that. Thus, serverless.

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