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Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

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Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#61

Post by malloryerik »

sohkamyung wrote: post #41
derefr wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why so many people are under the impression that they do thinness for thinness sake. They do thinness for lightness sake. The lighter your laptop (or tablet, or phone), the more you'll choose to not leave it behind but rather to just lug it around with you, and so the more places you'll have it and the more it'll be there to aid your productivity in random situations. [Also, for phones and tablets specif…

> They do thinness for lightness sake. Would you consider getting something like a LG Gram 15" then? It's thin and light but appears highly repairable [1] [1] https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/LG+Gram+15-Inch+Repairability+A...

I'm jealous sometimes of my girlfriend's Samsung ultrabook for this same reason. I think it's Samsung's answer to the LG Gram and wow, it's light.

If you want a really light machine, don't you have to ditch the aluminum? My 2017 MacBook Pro gets heavy, esp once you add the charger. I take it everywhere.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#62

Post by greglindahl »

dguaraglia wrote: post #53
greglindahl wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought a 12" MacBook when it came out because it seemed like it was a big advance over the previous Mac Air. I also bought the first generation Mac Air. So, obviously, you and I don't have similar criteria.

MacBook Pro users and MacBook users generally don't overlap. It's fine if you want a super-light, super-thin ultramobiles, but it makes little sense to compromise the Pro's usability in the name of thinness. I've been a Mac user for the last 7 years and for the first time I'm getting a non-Mac computer because the MacBook Pro is no longer attractive. It's a shame, because I have invested a significant amount of time…

Are you sure about that? When I work at my desk I use a dock and some monitors, and all the heavy lifting is on a remote server. I suppose there could be a selection effect for workers whose employers force them to work solely on their laptop, but is that common?

If you look at derefr's comment, he appears to work like I do.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#63

Post by throwaway5752 »

RobLach wrote: post #34
codeisawesome wrote: post #10

Is the title meant to be a joke? - Apple as a company does not have a single point of failure. - Arguably the iPhone could be called that; if they stopped selling MacBooks next year it still wouldn’t be their “downfall” (not that I like this state of affairs as I like MacBooks). I don’t really hate the butterfly keys either. I’ve been using it for over a year now on the pro, and I don’t know if it’s the second iterat…

Apple losing the image of quality engineering will effect their entire product range, with consumers less willing to pay a premium and second guessing engineering achievements by keeping in mind side effects. If the next iPhone is 20 grams lighter but I can’t make phone calls after 6 months, will I buy one over a equally powered Android $300 less?

I think the story of Coach (now Tapestry, ticker TPR) should be the ghost story they tell at every Apple corporate retreat. What do they say, "years to build and seconds to destroy"?

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#64

Post by [deleted] »

yawn_010101 wrote: post #47

Having interfaced with Apple in a different way (apart from owning a new MBP and an iPhone X) I'd say the issue is, and continues to be, growing pains. They're certainly losing the lead in software engineer talent (giving it away to whom, I'm not sure). But the single most horrible experience I've had with Apple in the last year was trying to get software published on the App Store. That's a department that's so larg…

[deleted]

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#65

Post by kalleboo »

spyckie2 wrote: post #52

This is NOT a big issue for consumers. Apple is great at keeping customers happy, their 4 year warranty extension for replacing the keyboard shows this. This IS a business issue. It has a quantifiable effect on profit margins for Apple's macbook, and I would look at it as an investor and see if it effects Apple's valuation in the short and long run. The Note 7 is a fantastic comparison - the complete recall did not h…

> This is NOT a big issue for consumers. Apple is great at keeping customers happy

I'm not happy if my laptop is out of commission for a week once every 6-12 months

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#66

Post by waitButWhy »

wpdev_63 wrote: post #7

Classic case of why business managers shouldn't be directing design of a product. Business managers sees .2mm shaved off the thickness of macbook pro to 'justify' the premium cost of it over other laptops while a developer/pro user of the laptop would increase the thickness to gain battery and maybe mechanical/mesh hybrid keys... I would be more than happy to pay for a pro version of the current macbook pro. EDIT----…

Dude.

...a pro version ...of the current macbook pro?

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#67

Post by ngngngng »

acomjean wrote: post #9
phinnaeus wrote: post #3

Realistically, I just can't really see Apple fixing this by introducing a new keyboard design that's any thicker. As much as I would love to hear "We've heard your feedback on the keyboards and we've made some drastic changes to address them in our new Macbook Pro", it just doesn't seem like their style. What do others think they're going to do for their next release of laptops?

I think they'll gradually improve the keyboard. It won't be great but it will be good enough. like the "don't hold it that way" antenna gate problem and the phone bending problems.. They'll fix.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_4#Antenna https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_6#Chassis_bending Honestly, its hard to get off the mac ecosystem though. I have a macbook pro, and am starting to look at linux laptops. Th…

Only thing I'm considering is a thinkpad x1 carbon. But the last time I tried putting linux on a laptop I had a few issues submitted to the linux kernel and still didn't have the laptop working perfectly (Asus zenbook) within a week I returned it and bought a MacBook pro. Might be time for another go.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#68

Post by mushufasa »

acomjean wrote: post #9
phinnaeus wrote: post #3

Realistically, I just can't really see Apple fixing this by introducing a new keyboard design that's any thicker. As much as I would love to hear "We've heard your feedback on the keyboards and we've made some drastic changes to address them in our new Macbook Pro", it just doesn't seem like their style. What do others think they're going to do for their next release of laptops?

I think they'll gradually improve the keyboard. It won't be great but it will be good enough. like the "don't hold it that way" antenna gate problem and the phone bending problems.. They'll fix.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_4#Antenna https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_6#Chassis_bending Honestly, its hard to get off the mac ecosystem though. I have a macbook pro, and am starting to look at linux laptops. Th…

System 76 (the small linux-only hardware manufacturer) just refreshed their Oryx Pro last month, which looks pretty capable and looks from afar to be really good build quality. https://system76.com/laptops/oryx

I haven't found many/any reviews of it since the refresh -- does anyone on HN have one who can attest?

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#69

Post by sgillen »

hsienmaneja wrote: post #16

Apple, please put back in full size up and down arrow keys

Interesting, I actually like the half arrow key thing, I often use the arrow key with my pinkie, makes it easy to switch between up and down. To each their own I guess.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#70

Post by ethagknight »

el_benhameen wrote: post #38
ethagknight wrote: post #12

I picked up my repaired late-2016 15” mbp this morning from warranty repair (replacement). The keyboard feels 100% better. Apple replaced my top case, logic board, and display system for free, out of warranty. I was very concerned about this computer’s longevity, I’ve even ordered a Razer mx cherry keyboard to use when at my desk to take some workload off apple’s questionable design decision, but the replacement keyb…

How long did the repair take? I talked to a guy at the Apple store who said they’d likely do it even if the issue is intermittent, but I don’t love the idea of not having my machine for several weeks.

It took 4 business days from drop off to pick up, but fortunately I got in just before the extended warranty was announced. I imagine now it will take longer, but that’s speculation.
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