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China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other
61–70 of 273 posts
Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
"But we at least must do something about it" Like oppress an entire region of people who aren't committing violence to get to the handful who are?
The presence of the "nonviolent" but complacent and complicit minority in these countries is what enables things to be the way they are. Maybe not everyone participates, but if you poll them on whether or not they support honor killings, oppression of women, etc. a large number will agree. This is not some fringe set of beliefs. Now personally I don't think we need to "do something about it", but the U.S. has actuall…
About your first point, you are totally right. A report made in France tells that 28% of Muslim support an authoritarian position and a separatism against their host country society. While 1/3 is technically a minority, it is still a really hight proportion and a really signifiant number of people that can be counted in millions.
"28 % des musulmans de France peuvent être regroupés dans ce groupe qui mélange à la fois des attitudes autoritaires et d’autres que l’on pourrait qualifier de « sécessionnistes ». L’islam est un moyen pour eux de s’affirmer en marge de la société française." [28% of muslim living in France can be grouped in this group that mix both authoritarian and « separatist » attitudes. Islam is for them a way to affirm themselves at the edge of the French society.] Un Islam de France est Possible, Institut Montaigne / Hakim El Karoui, 2016.
Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other
#63Whether you like China or not, Islamic fundamentalism is a huge problem to global peace today. Not just in the Middle East, Europe, but also parts of Southeast Asia (Malaysia, Philipphines) and China. The problem is people clinging to old time religious beliefs that women are inferior and must be veiled and that infidels are not worthy We've slowly dispelled Christian fervor (which used to be just as bad as Islamic f…
>The problem is people clinging to old time religious beliefs that women are inferior and must be veiled and that infidels are not worthy Wow, such an uninformed generalized comment. Not something you would expect to see at hacker news. Anyway, just because the West had problems with Christianity does not mean the East have the same problems with Islam. That is one of the reasons why Islam has more practicing followe…
Can you shed some light?
Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other
#64Whether you like China or not, Islamic fundamentalism is a huge problem to global peace today. Not just in the Middle East, Europe, but also parts of Southeast Asia (Malaysia, Philipphines) and China. The problem is people clinging to old time religious beliefs that women are inferior and must be veiled and that infidels are not worthy We've slowly dispelled Christian fervor (which used to be just as bad as Islamic f…
"We've slowly dispelled Christian fervor" is an incredibly misinformed take. Christian fundamentalists are still well armed and causing trouble in the United States on a regular basis, even if the Crusades haven't happened in a while. The death toll is sizable. Big names in evangelical culture with TV air time or even visits to the White House also trumpet on a regular basis that the end times are near, blood will ne…
I thought it was misinformed for the opposite reason. "Christian fervour" was responsible for the sailing of the Mayflower, the development of the modern public sphere, the majority of the high points of Western culture from Dante to Bach, and most of the values we live by today.
Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other
#65Whether you like China or not, Islamic fundamentalism is a huge problem to global peace today. Not just in the Middle East, Europe, but also parts of Southeast Asia (Malaysia, Philipphines) and China. The problem is people clinging to old time religious beliefs that women are inferior and must be veiled and that infidels are not worthy We've slowly dispelled Christian fervor (which used to be just as bad as Islamic f…
The philosophic foundations that made it possible for Christians to transition from theocracy to secularity (separation between "church" and state) come from Islamic caliphates.
Take a look at the academic lineage of St. Thomas Aquinas and you will see what I am talking about. He studied from Saint Albert Magnus, a guy that studied from a vast bibliography left by the Islamic Caliphate of Al-Andalus (aka Islamic Spain) after the Spanish Reconquista.
Without St. Thomas Aquinas by the way, Reinassance scientists that made the subsequent "European enlightment" possible would have been burned by the Inquisition and we would be in the middle ages, or at least 200 years away from being technologically able to manufacture a computer. Instead of being on Hacker News you would be dying of plague or in some dumb war.
The Islamic civilization was not always as theocratic as it is today. This happened only after the Mongols razed them and nomadic tribes were left. These nomadic tribes were more militaristic and theocratic than the Islamic Caliphates razed by the Mongols.
Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other
#66Whether you like China or not, Islamic fundamentalism is a huge problem to global peace today. Not just in the Middle East, Europe, but also parts of Southeast Asia (Malaysia, Philipphines) and China. The problem is people clinging to old time religious beliefs that women are inferior and must be veiled and that infidels are not worthy We've slowly dispelled Christian fervor (which used to be just as bad as Islamic f…
>The problem is people clinging to old time religious beliefs that women are inferior and must be veiled and that infidels are not worthy Wow, such an uninformed generalized comment. Not something you would expect to see at hacker news. Anyway, just because the West had problems with Christianity does not mean the East have the same problems with Islam. That is one of the reasons why Islam has more practicing followe…
What's so uninformed about it [0], are you implying those beliefs should still be held?
The main reason there are so many islam followers is that they have more kids on average.
[0] http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religi...
Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other
#67Besides this being dystopian out of the western libertarian pov, i wonder what it actually does against crime? I imagine a crime free city would be an interesting human phenomenon without equal. The side effects of there not being any undetected and unprosecuted crime would be fascinating.
What is crime though? Do you want to live somewhere where spitting on a random sidewalk in front of the wrong camera means you're banned from flying for a year? Is the fear of criminal violence greater than the fear of state violence?
> an action or omission that constitutes an offense that may be prosecuted by the state and is punishable by law.
He who holds the biggest stick writes the book of law
Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other
#68This paywall is defeating all my usual tricks, can someone help me out? On an iPhone and the web link didn’t work, nor did going through twitter or Facebook. Thanks in advance for any help.
>This paywall is defeating all my usual tricks, can someone help me out? Paying for the content ought to do the trick.
[deleted]
Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other
#69Besides this being dystopian out of the western libertarian pov, i wonder what it actually does against crime? I imagine a crime free city would be an interesting human phenomenon without equal. The side effects of there not being any undetected and unprosecuted crime would be fascinating.
Depends how you define crime. A system like this creates lots of opportunities for abuse by the police.
Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
> which used to be just as bad as Islamic fundamentalism This is unsubstantiated even in mediaeval times. For example the crusades were minor skirmishes compared to what is the invasion of spain and the balkans - not to mention all the other places in Africa, Asia and the middle east. It is also implies that Islam can be reformed (because it's just another religion) and is just behind for developmental reasons, but t…
Bullshit. You want proof that doesn't appeal to the Quran? Fine. In long-Islamic countries like Iran, Iraq, Syria, and Egypt, there are a large number of pre-existing minority religions: Yazidis, Mandeans, Samaritans, and a number of others -- as well as long-established Jewish and Christian communities. Those communities have been surrounded by Islam for more than a thousand years, and while they've undoubtedly got…
It is funny you take the example of Christians community in the Middle East, because right now they are precisely the target of Sunnis terrorists and in great danger. A few month ago, a Libanese bishop was saying in a newspaper that "Christians will inevitably disappear from the Middle-East, even from Lebanon". He predicted that to happen in the timeframe of a decade.
[1] https://www.lorientlejour.com/article/1110721/-a-quoi-serven...