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EU Commission presents draft directive to ban some plastic waste

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Re: EU Commission presents draft directive to ban some plastic waste

#61

Post by psergeant »

api wrote: post #6
psergeant wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poverty reduction programs, not trashing the planet, is the correct response to that

That can work to a point, but if environmental policies permanently increase the cost of things like energy then poverty reduction programs must pay that cost. That in turn inflates the cost of poverty reduction programs, making them require increased taxation. This in turn drags down the economy, creating more poverty.

If the economy is being boosted by the cost to the environment being ignored, that just means the world is taking on a type of debt.

Re: EU Commission presents draft directive to ban some plastic waste

#62

Post by DuskStar »

This seems a little too "signal, not help" to me. ~90% of plastic in the ocean comes from 10 rivers [0] of which 8 are in Asia and two in Africa - so reducing the use of plastic in Europe won't have any global impact and will probably have a variety of unintended consequences. But plastic in the oceans is a problem and so we must be seen to be doing something...

0: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/stemming-the-plas...

Re: EU Commission presents draft directive to ban some plastic waste

#63

Post by Yetanfou »

avar wrote: post #24

> Curbing the use of plastic cups for beverages I wonder what this will mean for events & festivals. E.g. Amsterdam has made it a policy that big events (including normal bars when the event is going on) must issue plastic cups to curb broken class everywhere. Will we have to go back to glass, or drink our beer out of paper cups? > as well as plastic food containers, such as the ones used for take-away. I'm open to t…

> ...must issue plastic cups to curb broken class everywhere. Will we have to go back to glass...

I'd say multiple-use polycarbonate is a better substitute. It has the rigidity of glass without the brittleness. What it lacks is hardness (it scratches rather easily) so these containers probably won't last as long as glass ones before they need to be replaced.

> ...The current deposit fees on plastic bottles are too low, once you're earning enough money it doesn't make any financial sense to return them.

Then thrash them, fine. As long as you don't toss 'm out of your window but put them in the bin when done with them they should end up in some recycling process, paid for by the deposit fee you waived. This does imply that the deposit fee balance should go to these purposes instead of ending up as a profit statement somewhere.

Re: EU Commission presents draft directive to ban some plastic waste

#64

Post by Yetanfou »

houshuang wrote: post #36
avar wrote: post #24

> Curbing the use of plastic cups for beverages I wonder what this will mean for events & festivals. E.g. Amsterdam has made it a policy that big events (including normal bars when the event is going on) must issue plastic cups to curb broken class everywhere. Will we have to go back to glass, or drink our beer out of paper cups? > as well as plastic food containers, such as the ones used for take-away. I'm open to t…

At most festivals in Switzerland, you have a single kind of reusable plastic cup, for which you pay a deposit of a few Euro. You can then hand it back at any venue part of the festival and get the deposit back. Of course it requires some dishwashing facilities, but it seems to work very well, everyone is used to it, and it avoids massive heaps of garbage.

The Rail Ale festival in Wales [1] uses branded half-pints as entry tickets. The festival is spread out (the 'rail' part) over several locations, entry to which is granted on display of that year's half-pint glass. Once finished said half-pint ends up in the cupboard, to be pulled out when sharing a beer with friends. An avid visitor might end up with quite a few of them, true, but theses glasses being both useful as well as decorative this is not much of a problem.

[1] http://rail-ale.com/

Re: EU Commission presents draft directive to ban some plastic waste

#65

Post by ISL »

jbob2000 wrote: post #59
ganzuul wrote: post #11

I want to put 2D barcodes on trash-to-be. Then when you find it in nature you should be able to trace it to when and where it was purchased. If this is one of those 10% of users causing 90% of the problems - type situations this would be an effective strategy to hold trashy people accountable.

You don’t even need to go that far, somebody has already studied where the garbage comes from: https://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/wilderness-resources/blogs... Summary: China and India. We can and should curb our plastic use in the West, but there are 2 billion+ people on the other side of the world that don’t give a flying fuck. (Yeah yeah, we polluted when we were developing too. But we barely had 100 million people…

One of the most powerful ways to lead is by example. If we can do the hard work of figuring out how to get sustainability right, it will be easier to help everyone else get on board.

Re: EU Commission presents draft directive to ban some plastic waste

#66

Post by haste410 »

ganzuul wrote: post #11

I want to put 2D barcodes on trash-to-be. Then when you find it in nature you should be able to trace it to when and where it was purchased. If this is one of those 10% of users causing 90% of the problems - type situations this would be an effective strategy to hold trashy people accountable.

What happens when my trash, or even something I purchased that later became trash because of someone else, finds its way outside of normal disposal routes through no fault of my own?

Re: EU Commission presents draft directive to ban some plastic waste

#67

Post by jdavis703 »

avar wrote: post #24

> Curbing the use of plastic cups for beverages I wonder what this will mean for events & festivals. E.g. Amsterdam has made it a policy that big events (including normal bars when the event is going on) must issue plastic cups to curb broken class everywhere. Will we have to go back to glass, or drink our beer out of paper cups? > as well as plastic food containers, such as the ones used for take-away. I'm open to t…

There are compostable plastic cups made of PLA, such as https://greenpaperproducts.com/biodegradable-cold-cups.aspx. They work fine so long as you're not holding anything hot in them (I've seen them melt when someone tried to serve tea in one).

Re: EU Commission presents draft directive to ban some plastic waste

#68

Post by amelius »

ganzuul wrote: post #11

I want to put 2D barcodes on trash-to-be. Then when you find it in nature you should be able to trace it to when and where it was purchased. If this is one of those 10% of users causing 90% of the problems - type situations this would be an effective strategy to hold trashy people accountable.

Nice idea, but who can we trust with all that data?

Re: EU Commission presents draft directive to ban some plastic waste

#69

Post by biggc »

avar wrote: post #24

> Curbing the use of plastic cups for beverages I wonder what this will mean for events & festivals. E.g. Amsterdam has made it a policy that big events (including normal bars when the event is going on) must issue plastic cups to curb broken class everywhere. Will we have to go back to glass, or drink our beer out of paper cups? > as well as plastic food containers, such as the ones used for take-away. I'm open to t…

> I'm open to this, it sucks to have to throw so much crap away after ordering take-away, but I haven't seen a container yet that would be suitable for e.g. 80 degree centigrade soups, stews etc. What are the alternatives that are cheap enough for disposable take-away use?

Maybe a deposit system? The fancy milk I like to buy comes in glass bottles with a $2 deposit. That's enough that I hold on to them and take them back to the grocery store. A similar practice could be used for take-out/delivery restaurants.

Re: EU Commission presents draft directive to ban some plastic waste

#70

Post by dsfyu404ed »

avar wrote: post #24

> Curbing the use of plastic cups for beverages I wonder what this will mean for events & festivals. E.g. Amsterdam has made it a policy that big events (including normal bars when the event is going on) must issue plastic cups to curb broken class everywhere. Will we have to go back to glass, or drink our beer out of paper cups? > as well as plastic food containers, such as the ones used for take-away. I'm open to t…

>Will we have to go back to glass, or drink our beer out of paper cups?

They're called cans and they're highly recyclable.

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