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Mozilla to remove “meritocracy” from governance docs because it's “problematic”

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Re: Mozilla to remove “meritocracy” from governance docs because it's “problematic”

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Words are important. Diversity is important. Changing words like "meritocracy" does not improve diversity. It is the illusion of diversity, a feel-good opportunity for well-intentioned bystanders. The true intent is for a small group of highly politically motivated people to gain more control. The governance documents are about control and changing those documents means a shift in control. The movement we are seeing…

When it cropped up here a while back I don't remember anything seeming problematic with FreeBSD's new CoC. What's the issue with it?

The problems in FreeBSD CoC were widely discussed.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16406946

When people approached some of the FreeBSD Core Team with their concerns about vague language that could be subject to abuse, they were basically told they were all racist transphobes who weren't welcome to contribute to FreeBSD anyways.

So it was a pretty obvious politically-motivated power-grab.

Re: Mozilla to remove “meritocracy” from governance docs because it's “problematic”

#62
I keep writing paragraphs to respond to topics like these, but every time I find myself just linking to @aphyr instead, who put it so much more eloquently than I can.

https://lobste.rs/s/nf3xgg/i_am_leaving_llvm#c_ubyrb0

Paste:

Suckless makes a window manager: a part of a computer that human beings, with all their rich and varying abilities and perspectives, interact with constantly. Your choices of defaults and customization options have direct impact on those humans.

For example, color schemes determine whether color-blind people are able to quickly scan active vs inactive options and understand information hierarchy. Font sizes and contrast ratios can make the interface readable, difficult, or completely unusable for visually impaired people. The sizes of click targets, double-click timeouts, and drag thresholds impact usability for those with motor difficulties. Default choices of interface, configuration, and documentation language embed the project in a particular English-speaking context, and the extent to which your team supports internationalization can limit, or expand, your user base.

With limited time and resources, you will have to make tradeoffs in your code, documentation, and community about which people your software is supportive and hostile towards. These are inherently political decisions which cannot be avoided. This is not to say that your particular choices are wrong. It’s just you are already engaged in “non-technical”, political work, because you, like everyone else here, are making a tool for human beings. The choice to minimize the thought you put into those decisions does not erase the decisions themselves.

At the community development level, your intentional and forced choices around language, schedule, pronouns, and even technical terminology can make contributors from varying backgrounds feel welcome or unwelcome, or render the community inaccessible entirely. These too are political choices. Your post above is one of them.

There is, unfortunately, no such thing as a truly neutral stance on inclusion. Consider: you wish to take only the best developers, and yet your post has already discouraged good engineers from working on your project. Doubtless it has encouraged other engineers (who may be quite skilled!) with a similar political view to your own; those who believe, for instance, that current minority representation in tech is justified, representing the best engineers available, and that efforts to change those ratios are inherently discriminatory and unjust.

Policies have impact. Consider yours.

Re: Mozilla to remove “meritocracy” from governance docs because it's “problematic”

#63
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What control do you feel these figures will gain by removing the word meritocracy, specifically?

They are already attempting to control use of language and the foundational view of how open source works, based on their world view that equality is an illusion and only through use of selective discrimination against unpopular groups, as dictated by them, can equality be achieved.

lmao. so you're basically saying they made u mad because you think changing the word meritocracy discriminates against the ultimate oppressed group, White Males

Re: Mozilla to remove “meritocracy” from governance docs because it's “problematic”

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Words are important. Devs will argue over a correct variable name for hours but think names in other places have no meaning

Words are important. Diversity is important. Changing words like "meritocracy" does not improve diversity. It is the illusion of diversity, a feel-good opportunity for well-intentioned bystanders. The true intent is for a small group of highly politically motivated people to gain more control. The governance documents are about control and changing those documents means a shift in control. The movement we are seeing…

They're "proposing" to transform from rule by Engineering, i.e. meritocracy, to rule by HR.

Why am I feeling a sudden urge to read Animal Farm?

Re: Mozilla to remove “meritocracy” from governance docs because it's “problematic”

#65
post #23

Can someone explain how striving for meritocracy stems from assumption of equal opportunity? I want projects I am part of or benefit from to be guided by meritocracy. It means some people have better chances to contribute or gain influence there than others. Those are more competent people who often got better opportunities through life. I want that because I care about those projects. I don't see how chances not bei…

Let's say you get "a" tries to succeed. You'd expect equally talented candidates x, and y, to have Pr(x|a) == Pr(y|a). But what if y only had "b" tries, where b And that's all there is to it. If you no longer assume everyone has an equal chance to show their skills, then the meritocracy isn't actually working as intended. Good "y" candidates are getting ignored for worse "x" candidates, just because "x" candidates ha…

If the sample sizes differ you should use a statistical test not just the variances

Re: Mozilla to remove “meritocracy” from governance docs because it's “problematic”

#66
post #54

As someone who comes from a minority group, I absolutely want to be judged on the technical merit of my contributions and not my skin color, gender or genetic background. Implying that people who aren't white males can't succeed in a meritocratic environment is racist and condescending. I don't see how this helps diversity one bit.

I have thought about this and I too find it patronising and racist indeed. I don't care about your race, I only care if you are the best.

It's actually a pretty popular opinion among high performing minorities (at least the ones I know -- yes anecdotal). Sadly it's a position entirely absent and forbidden in the debate around this.

While I'm not one for identity politics, I have to say there's just something weird about watching wealthy and powerful white (usually) people debate this issue and completely ignore the voice of those they are supposed to be "sticking up" for.

For me the end goal looks like an attempt to remove the tool I and others used to make social and economic advancement (legitimate skill and hard work) and replace it with some sort of cherry picking of individuals from above. It's definitely something I'm not comfortable with.

Re: Mozilla to remove “meritocracy” from governance docs because it's “problematic”

#67
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They clash. You either have a meritocracy or diversity quotas; you either choose people because they’re competent or because they are of a certain sex/race.

this is an extreme oversimplification. those aren't mutually exclusive and diversity isn't just "quotas". read a book

Thanks for the recommendation. I read harry potter. It was great. Not sure what I learned about 'diveristy', though.

Re: Mozilla to remove “meritocracy” from governance docs because it's “problematic”

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Words are important. Devs will argue over a correct variable name for hours but think names in other places have no meaning

Exactly! Programmers/Developers brushing this off as, ”well it’s only semantics” seem to forget that our entire industry is predicated on the use of semantics...

These people thing changing the code of our institutions works, specifically by giving them more power, that we can rid our institutions of the worst aspects of human nature: racism, sexism, xenophobia.

We can and should combat those aspects for sure, but we are also giving into another aspect of human nature: unchecked power and control, which will almost certainly lead to abuse. There is also no evidence that this will improve diversity.

It's just to make people feel good and put a few radicals in charge who want to dictate everything.

Re: Mozilla to remove “meritocracy” from governance docs because it's “problematic”

#69
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is an extreme oversimplification. those aren't mutually exclusive and diversity isn't just "quotas". read a book

Thanks for the recommendation. I read harry potter. It was great. Not sure what I learned about 'diveristy', though.

good choice. great series
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