SEC filing suggests MoviePass’ time is running out • Hacker News Board

Re: SEC filing suggests MoviePass’ time is running out

#61

Post by emodendroket » Wed, May 09, 2018, 5:26 PM UTC

teraflop wrote: post #20

emodendroket wrote: post #7

> When the company changed those rules to limit subscribers so they could only see a given movie once, no matter how long it runs in theaters, a support ticket stated, “we hope this will encourage you to see new movies and enjoy something different!” It turns out that was a blatant effort to cut costs, with today’s filing explaining that the move “enabled us to reduce our cash deficit during the first week of May 201…

According to the filing, this change reduced the cash deficit by 35%. That's very different from saying that it reduced overall expenses, or the number of tickets purchased, by 35%. It's not possible to draw conclusions about how many people were "abusing" the service without a lot more information.

You are right. Still, unless there was widespread purchasing of tickets for non subscribers going on, I would expect the effect of that change to be a blip, not a substantial drop in their cash deficit.

Re: SEC filing suggests MoviePass’ time is running out

#62

Post by giobox » Wed, May 09, 2018, 5:27 PM UTC

jankassens wrote: post #55

vincentmarle wrote: post #41

In the Netherlands we have our own “MoviePass” (called Pathé Unlimited) started by the country’s biggest theater chain (Pathé) since the early 2000s, so the concept is definitely not new to us, I was actually surprised to learn that Cinemark didn’t have their own subscription model when I moved here since it worked really well in Europe (both for customers and for Pathé). The reason why the model works for Pathé and…

It also appears to be EUR 20 per month. MoviePass is less then half that at USD 10. Often less then a single regular movie ticket.

And yet the 20 Euro one appears to have been a _sustainable_ business model.

Cineworld cinemas in the UK do a very similar offer, and again it costs roughly 20 Euros.

MoviePass pricing has always reminded me of the old adage, "If it seems too good to be true, it probably is.", especially when you consider they are paying full face value, which none of the European competitors I'm familiar with do, as they typically run both the subscription service and the cinemas themselves.

The more pressing question to me is why hasn't a large cinema chain in the US tried this model, when it is clearly working in many other foreign markets?

Re: SEC filing suggests MoviePass’ time is running out

#63

Post by overcast » Wed, May 09, 2018, 5:27 PM UTC

dbatten wrote: post #60

Wasn't there some article a while back about how MoviePass was trying to have a big enough market-share in terms of movie-goers (read: popcorn and soda revenue for theaters) to be able to start pushing theaters around? In other words, they could say to theater companies "hey, maybe you should think about giving us tickets at a discount so you don't lose out on that sweet sweet concession money." Or maybe even play on…

I thought that was blatantly obvious from the very start? Their entire business model is to gain enough subscribers, that they can use to leverage theaters.

Re: SEC filing suggests MoviePass’ time is running out

#64

Post by nsomaru » Wed, May 09, 2018, 5:29 PM UTC

mattnewton wrote: post #58

vincentmarle wrote: post #41

In the Netherlands we have our own “MoviePass” (called Pathé Unlimited) started by the country’s biggest theater chain (Pathé) since the early 2000s, so the concept is definitely not new to us, I was actually surprised to learn that Cinemark didn’t have their own subscription model when I moved here since it worked really well in Europe (both for customers and for Pathé). The reason why the model works for Pathé and…

S/condiments/concessions? Thanks for the take, that makes a lot of sense. Maybe movie pass will be bought / cloned by a theatre chain here.

    s/condiments/confections

Why buy them out though? Implementing a subscription on top of an existing service isn't that hard, is it?

Re: SEC filing suggests MoviePass’ time is running out

#65

Post by dingaling » Wed, May 09, 2018, 5:29 PM UTC

smacktoward wrote: post #51

dwighttk wrote: post #2

It doesn't seem to be the sort of thing that even has a chance of being profitable... The only reason to join is to save money on tickets, the only way they make money is if people spend more on membership fees than the tickets they buy.

The play is to get enough users fast enough so that MoviePass sits between the theater chains and a big chunk of their customer base. Once that happens, MoviePass can start squeezing the theaters to discount the prices MP pays for tickets with threats of taking their theaters out of the MP system if they won't. If the MoviePass user base is a big enough fraction of the overall theatergoing population, the theaters wi…

Other than in the very early days Amazon wasn't burning cash; they very rarely went to the market for equity and were self-funding very quickly. They didn't post profits for a long time because there was no point, they used the margin for growth instead.

Re: SEC filing suggests MoviePass’ time is running out

#66

Post by IncRnd » Wed, May 09, 2018, 5:29 PM UTC

adamc wrote: post #53

slg wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since MoviePass buys it tickets at retail costs, a single heavy user is exceptionally costly. Imagine someone who purchases a $15 ticket 25 times a month for a total of $375. MoviePass would need something like 40 users paying $10 a month who barely use the service in order to offset that single user. It therefore isn't surprising that MoviePass is making changes to curtail those heavy users. Even if only something l…

Buying its tickets at retail cost is crazy...

It's all about Failing Fast and Failing Often in today's world of silly business sayings.

Re: SEC filing suggests MoviePass’ time is running out

#67

Post by djrogers » Wed, May 09, 2018, 5:31 PM UTC

dbatten wrote: post #60

Wasn't there some article a while back about how MoviePass was trying to have a big enough market-share in terms of movie-goers (read: popcorn and soda revenue for theaters) to be able to start pushing theaters around? In other words, they could say to theater companies "hey, maybe you should think about giving us tickets at a discount so you don't lose out on that sweet sweet concession money." Or maybe even play on…

That's addressed toward the end of the article - basically the AMC CEO calling the pricing Moviepass wanted 'ridiculous', and saying it's not sustainable.

Re: SEC filing suggests MoviePass’ time is running out

#68

Post by djrogers » Wed, May 09, 2018, 5:38 PM UTC

calbear81 wrote: post #44

... I was somewhat expecting this to be possibility so we frontloaded our movie watching to get our money's worth but also bought through the Costco deal as we expect Costco to cover if they did go out of business given that Costco has a generous return/satisfaction policy.

Did you pay up front for a year? If you're just paying month to month, I don't understand teh concern, or the expectation for Coscto to 'cover'.

If you expected it to fail, it seems that going month to month would have been a better plan than expecting a third party to eat a loss at your gain.

Re: SEC filing suggests MoviePass’ time is running out

#69

Post by crysin » Wed, May 09, 2018, 5:43 PM UTC

dbatten wrote: post #60

Wasn't there some article a while back about how MoviePass was trying to have a big enough market-share in terms of movie-goers (read: popcorn and soda revenue for theaters) to be able to start pushing theaters around? In other words, they could say to theater companies "hey, maybe you should think about giving us tickets at a discount so you don't lose out on that sweet sweet concession money." Or maybe even play on…

Cinemark came out with their own subscription service. Not the same type of deal as MoviePass but still, it made me decide to go with theirs over MoviePass. Sure it means I'm locked in to Cinemark only if I want to make use of it but I know my benefits of the sub won't change month to month.

Re: SEC filing suggests MoviePass’ time is running out

#70

Post by dawnerd » Wed, May 09, 2018, 5:45 PM UTC

patmcc wrote: post #48

emodendroket wrote: post #7

> When the company changed those rules to limit subscribers so they could only see a given movie once, no matter how long it runs in theaters, a support ticket stated, “we hope this will encourage you to see new movies and enjoy something different!” It turns out that was a blatant effort to cut costs, with today’s filing explaining that the move “enabled us to reduce our cash deficit during the first week of May 201…

>>Getting rid of repeats saving 35% seems to point to some pretty widespread abuse. Who are these people seeing the same movie multiple times during its initial theater run? I wouldn't be surprised if there were people (especially those that buy MoviePass, I'd expect them to be movie fans) that see big blockbusters two or three times. But yeah at 35% savings that's gotta be largely abuse.

I don’t think it’s largely abuse. Some of us wanted to go again with another group of friends. Example, I saw jumanji alone, liked it enough I brought some friends and watched it again. Star Wars was the same way. I’m fine with them removing it since I’m still getting way more from the service than I’m putting in, but I don’t want to be called an abuser for doing what their own terms said I could do.