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Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

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Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#61

Post by ksk »

Someone1234 wrote: post #11
parthdesai wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explain China then. Apple is being hypocritical in this case. Giving in to the demands of government when it hurts their business ( if it did take privacy as seriously as HN makes it out to be, they would take a stand in China) while advocating privacy in Western world.

Explain what with China? Apple are legally required to follow the law of countries they do business in. In China the law requires that the government, not third party apps, gains access to additional information. Apple can limit third party app privacy violations while still following the law. The only stand Apple could take here is: - Stop selling in China - Have executives go to jail Just as if they violated US law…

That is a poor argument. "Selling" a product is not a principle or a virtue that one is required to comply with. Protecting the privacy of users is. Being non-discriminatory is. What if they had to do business in a country that forbids gay people from working? Using your logic - "Oh well they had to fire all their gay employees to just follow the law".

Its hypocritical of Apple to suggest they truly care about privacy other than as a means to simply differentiate themselves to sell some more shiny objects - which might well be a common cutthroat business tactic.

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#62

Post by shimfish »

I'm curious as to how this behaviour is actually detected. I mean are they checking for outgoing network requests that contain something that looks like co-ordinates because presumably that would be trivial to obfuscate.

Or is this really just a case of rejecting apps that are asking for location even though the app has no real use for it?

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#64

Post by millstone »

notyourday wrote: post #58
millstone wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's #1 principle is to make the best product in the market. That's what they've done: the alternatives to iPhones in China are much worse in terms of privacy. Apple would not be helping anyone by going to the mat on this.

[flagged]

What a bunch of crap. When I visited China, my iPhone was the thing that worked. I was able to use e.g. Apple Maps, iMessage without having to install spyware like WeChat.

If I were Chinese, I would get an iPhone and disable iCloud Backup. Yes it sucks that I'd have to do that, but it's way better than having spyware built into the firmware like domestic OEMs do (Huawei, etc.). It's good for privacy that Apple remains an option in China.

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#65

Post by MBCook »

princekolt wrote: post #52
SEJeff wrote: post #28

If you're worried about analytics and tracking / ads on your iPhone, consider installing Disconnect's Privacy Pro: https://lifehacker.com/disconnect-pro-eliminates-tracking-on... It costs a few $$, but sets up a VPN profile that is generally always on. It just blocks all of the ads / "web bugs" / analytics stuff and gives you a UI to show how much. Apple cracking down is a good thing, but so is defense in depth. It e…

While the concept is good, I'd be extremely concerned of using any third party VPN service, free or paid. You are basically trusting your entire internet usage to a single entity, and I think this is way too risky. One alternative is setting up a raspberry-pi at home running pi-hole and OpenVPN. While it is still not risk-free, it is still better than one centralized entity taking everyone's traffic. On the other han…

I agree.

“Don’t like being tracked? Just let us watch EVERYTHING you do and we promise to stop people from tracking you.”

You’re putting someone in the perfect position to track you far better than anyone else could. You better REALLY trust them.

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#66

Post by stirner »

SEJeff wrote: post #28

If you're worried about analytics and tracking / ads on your iPhone, consider installing Disconnect's Privacy Pro: https://lifehacker.com/disconnect-pro-eliminates-tracking-on... It costs a few $$, but sets up a VPN profile that is generally always on. It just blocks all of the ads / "web bugs" / analytics stuff and gives you a UI to show how much. Apple cracking down is a good thing, but so is defense in depth. It e…

Disconnect was co-founded by an ex-Google DoubleClick (ad) engineer, and hired an ex-NSA (dragnet surveillance) engineer. There are tracker-blocking adblockers for every platform that aren't made by people with anti-privacy backgrounds.

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#67

Post by SEJeff »

princekolt wrote: post #52
SEJeff wrote: post #28

If you're worried about analytics and tracking / ads on your iPhone, consider installing Disconnect's Privacy Pro: https://lifehacker.com/disconnect-pro-eliminates-tracking-on... It costs a few $$, but sets up a VPN profile that is generally always on. It just blocks all of the ads / "web bugs" / analytics stuff and gives you a UI to show how much. Apple cracking down is a good thing, but so is defense in depth. It e…

While the concept is good, I'd be extremely concerned of using any third party VPN service, free or paid. You are basically trusting your entire internet usage to a single entity, and I think this is way too risky. One alternative is setting up a raspberry-pi at home running pi-hole and OpenVPN. While it is still not risk-free, it is still better than one centralized entity taking everyone's traffic. On the other han…

It is not actually a vpn. It is a glorified /etc/hosts 127.0.0.1 null route app. It doesn't send any traffic over any real VPN, so your worry isn't a thing.

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#68

Post by SEJeff »

MBCook wrote: post #65
princekolt wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the concept is good, I'd be extremely concerned of using any third party VPN service, free or paid. You are basically trusting your entire internet usage to a single entity, and I think this is way too risky. One alternative is setting up a raspberry-pi at home running pi-hole and OpenVPN. While it is still not risk-free, it is still better than one centralized entity taking everyone's traffic. On the other han…

I agree. “Don’t like being tracked? Just let us watch EVERYTHING you do and we promise to stop people from tracking you.” You’re putting someone in the perfect position to track you far better than anyone else could. You better REALLY trust them.

Again, it uses a VPN to route all traffic on the phone through the app, which sends no traffic anywhere outside of your phone (confirmed via my home firewall showing no traffic going out). It uses a VPN to simply route traffic through the app to null route bad destinations. Make sense?

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#69

Post by stcredzero »

dep_b wrote: post #2

I'm working for years as a developer building iOS applications. Apple got so strict the last months maybe last year it's just incredible. Lots of questions about monetization and background services, they really want you to have a solid business case for background location or just don't use it. As a consumer I'm happy they take those steps though. My privacy is worth money. Either somebody sells it and gives me a "f…

they really want you to have a solid business case for background location or just don't use it.

I did notice that it was being used a lot, and it seemed like I had much worse battery life when using certain apps.

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#70

Post by osteele »

ksk wrote: post #61
Someone1234 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explain what with China? Apple are legally required to follow the law of countries they do business in. In China the law requires that the government, not third party apps, gains access to additional information. Apple can limit third party app privacy violations while still following the law. The only stand Apple could take here is: - Stop selling in China - Have executives go to jail Just as if they violated US law…

That is a poor argument. "Selling" a product is not a principle or a virtue that one is required to comply with. Protecting the privacy of users is. Being non-discriminatory is. What if they had to do business in a country that forbids gay people from working? Using your logic - "Oh well they had to fire all their gay employees to just follow the law". Its hypocritical of Apple to suggest they truly care about privac…

Any good act by a corporation can be explained away as a business strategy. Just as any good act by an individual can be explained away as a means to garner status, or because the individual derives personal satisfaction from either the act or the effects of good behavior.

Are you arguing that one must always impute manipulative motives to a corporation? (And should therefore not reward consequentially better behavior, because it must be based on invalid motives?)

Or is your point that Apple is uniquely hypocritical? If so, on what evidence about Apple in particular?

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