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I am leaving llvm

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Re: I am leaving llvm

#61

Post by [deleted] »

peterashford wrote: post #58
rhapsodic wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, you're happy if people get discriminated against but not for those people to ask you to think about it? This is a typical SJW non-argument, built atop a non-sequitur. Implying that I'm happy that people get discriminated against, while offering no logic to back it up. I disagree with you, therefore I am a bad person with bad motives. And that's what's driving this whole SJW-CoC movement.

The post you were responding to asked "what if I am being discriminated against? what do you say to me?" You respond that you find them bossy and insufferable. Unless those observations are inaccurate I struggle to see how you take issue with the question I asked. It certainly sounds from your own words that you do not care about people being discriminated against.

[deleted]

Re: I am leaving llvm

#62

Post by peterashford »

rhapsodic wrote: post #48
peterashford wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever the root cause, the predominance of white males (of which I am one) in tech shows that there is a lack of representation of various groups. This ought to be blindingly obvious

> Whatever the root cause, the predominance of white males (of which I am one) in tech shows that there is a lack of representation of various groups. This ought to be blindingly obvious What I am well and truly fed up with is the implication that it is pernicious behavior on the part of white males that is responsible for this state of affairs. And that's not necessarily relevant to this particular SJW dustup, but i…

I agree that that sometimes happens, and I agree that it is not okay when that happens. However, I really think we need to guard against reasoning along the lines of "sometimes people are overzealous with identity politics therefore lets oppose all attempts at dealing with injustice". The problem with a lot of these debates is the extreme polarisation that often occurs. We need to keep minds open and not stop thinking just because some actors in the debates are jerks

Re: I am leaving llvm

#63

Post by rhapsodic »

morvita wrote: post #39
cucumberferity wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is something that happened in 1864 or 1964 going to prevent you from identifying a good engineer in front of you?

It does when those events and the decades that followed have prevented minorities from having the opportunities to become a good engineer. This isn't about you and I not recognizing talent in front of us, it's about giving that talent a chance to stand in front of, and ideally next to, us.

>It does when those events and the decades that followed have prevented minorities from having the opportunities to become a good engineer. This isn't about you and I not recognizing talent in front of us, it's about giving that talent a chance to stand in front of, and ideally next to, us.

Oh please. For decades, in the US, there have been programs designed to attract women and minorities to engineering and tech careers. I am of the opinion* that in 2018, women or minorities who are are not in tech, are not in tech because of choices they freely made. Any remnants of discrimination are negligible compared to the advantages that have been heaped upon them.

*I'm sure many disagree with the opinion expressed above, and that's OK. I'm sure many also agree with it. But I would bet that holy hell would break loose if I were to express that opinion in a discussion forum of a FOSS project that has been co-opted by the SJW scolds. And your opinion, which I was responding to, would be permitted.

Re: I am leaving llvm

#64

Post by peterashford »

ropeadopepope wrote: post #55
peterashford wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever the root cause, the predominance of white males (of which I am one) in tech shows that there is a lack of representation of various groups. This ought to be blindingly obvious

What's not so obvious is why that's a bad thing. Considering the fact that millions (possibly billions at this point) have been spent recruiting non-whites and non-males in tech, there's no lack of equality of opportunity here.

Monoculture doesn't foster a range of ideas. I work in games where having more women is great - we produce products that work better for more people and I find it balances out company culture

Re: I am leaving llvm

#65

Post by ropeadopepope »

peterashford wrote: post #64
ropeadopepope wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's not so obvious is why that's a bad thing. Considering the fact that millions (possibly billions at this point) have been spent recruiting non-whites and non-males in tech, there's no lack of equality of opportunity here.

Monoculture doesn't foster a range of ideas. I work in games where having more women is great - we produce products that work better for more people and I find it balances out company culture

And yet, you're pushing a monoculture of ideas. How ironic of you.

Re: I am leaving llvm

#66

Post by rhapsodic »

peterashford wrote: post #58
rhapsodic wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, you're happy if people get discriminated against but not for those people to ask you to think about it? This is a typical SJW non-argument, built atop a non-sequitur. Implying that I'm happy that people get discriminated against, while offering no logic to back it up. I disagree with you, therefore I am a bad person with bad motives. And that's what's driving this whole SJW-CoC movement.

The post you were responding to asked "what if I am being discriminated against? what do you say to me?" You respond that you find them bossy and insufferable. Unless those observations are inaccurate I struggle to see how you take issue with the question I asked. It certainly sounds from your own words that you do not care about people being discriminated against.

>The post you were responding to asked "what if I am being discriminated against? what do you say to me?" You respond that you find them bossy and insufferable. Unless those observations are inaccurate I struggle to see how you take issue with the question I asked.

I don't take issue with it. I responded with the answer it merited.

>It certainly sounds from your own words that you do not care about people being discriminated against.

Uh, no. I have not seen any evidence to support that discrimination against women or minorities in tech is pervasive. Quite the opposite, in fact. People keep making that claim, however, expecting it to be uncritically accepted at face value. And those who don't, well, they must just be one of those bad people who are happy to see people get discriminated against.

Re: I am leaving llvm

#67

Post by dang »

ropeadopepope wrote: post #65
peterashford wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Monoculture doesn't foster a range of ideas. I work in games where having more women is great - we produce products that work better for more people and I find it balances out company culture

And yet, you're pushing a monoculture of ideas. How ironic of you.

This breaks the site guidelines. Could you please do a better job of following them? "Comments should get more civil and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive," and this is a divisive topic.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: I am leaving llvm

#68

Post by platinumrad »

bmarquez wrote: post #44
badsectoracula wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not know how that looks to other people but to me these rules look both sexist and racist.

As someone who would qualify for the linked program, I agree. A lot of words just to say "no Asians allowed".

I wonder how these people would feel about someone who claimed that Japan or Taiwan was a "Pacific Island".

Re: I am leaving llvm

#69

Post by pulisse »

shifter wrote: post #11
shifter wrote: post #10

Gotta love how clattner shuts down the thread. He's a nice guy but he does have a strong authoritarian side that gets triggered by the typical SJW causes (even in small talk about silly things).

To the downvoters: I'm a liberal speaking from years of working with him in meat space . You may not like what I said but it's accurate.

Lattner's message, in its entirety, was:

This list is for technical compiler and tools discussions, lets not turn a thread about Rafael’s personal decision into a rant about CoC’s which we have been through before.

If you’d like to have a productive discussion about CoC topics, then please start a new thread and use a respectful and productive tone.

If you're being downvoted for a tendentious characterization of the thread, it looks justified.

Re: I am leaving llvm

#70

Post by ropeadopepope »

dang wrote: post #67
ropeadopepope wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, you're pushing a monoculture of ideas. How ironic of you.

This breaks the site guidelines. Could you please do a better job of following them? "Comments should get more civil and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive," and this is a divisive topic. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Half this post's comments breaks the site guidelines as per that rule, but I will try harder.
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